I am very new to KiCad and electronics. Could someone tell me what are these lines created by KiCad 6.0 in PCB footprint layout? Is it okay if they overlap? Or should I reduce the pad size so that they doesn’t overlap? I assume they are fill zone limiting lines am I right? Thank you.
It is ok if they overlap. However, it is a clearance violation when they touch copper like so for pad 1:
Thank you so much for the reply. But could you tell me if they are crucial in PCB making when I send my Gerber files to third party PCB company, if they overlap?
Edit:
@straubm, Thank you and sorry I posted my reply before seeing your second reply.
Clearance basically IS crucial. They must not overlap any copper. Clearances are set to meet the manufacturer’s capabilities, which are typically something around 6mil for prototype boards. But I wouldn’t push the envelope. Most of my boards are 10/10 mil. Depends on board complexity, but for hobbyist purposes you rarely need finer. That can be manufactured even by the shabbiest of board houses
Thank you for the detailed insight, though I don’t clearly understand and am a bit intimidated by these finer measurements you mentioned (6mil, 10/10mil etc.) I get the idea that from a hobbyist perspective this should not create much problems to get the PCB fabricated.
Nothing intimidating here. Just go to JLCPCB, Pcbway, Elecrow, OSHPark and a zilllion others and check their capabilities to get a feeling.
Yes and no. There are a few constraints you have to honor. Maximum board size for prototype is 100x100mm typically. Larger formats cost. A couple of bucks for one manufacturer, a ton for others. Same for minimum drill diameter. There can be significant differences between the manufacturers.
It is good practice to get a feeling for that before you start your board to avoid changing things down the line for manufacturing reasons.
Feel free to turn to the forum if you have questions, no matter how many. And for sure you can post your (first) board for review here if you so choose.
Most important: relax and enjoy the journey.
The clearance line means that “this copper item requires this much empty (copperless) space around it”. Therefore the lines themselves can overlap but they must not overlap with copper. The manufacturer tells in their “capabilities” how much each kind of copper item requires space around it, sometimes also more accurate as a matrix like “between pad and track”, “between pad and pad” etc. Often they are difficult to interpret at least for a beginner. Therefore you should find a good maximum value of those of the recommendations of the manufacturer, then add some amount to it. In general 0.2mm or 0.25mm is a good default for minimum clearances which all manufacturers can do. The minimum track width is often the same amount.
You can’t of course change the actual clearance between pads of a SMD component because the footprint must adhere closely to the datasheet recommendation, and the smaller the pads/clearances, the better manufacturer you may need. But if you don’t use very small components you don’t have to care about that.
There’s a way in KiCad to set very complicated and fine grained clearance and other rules in a text form, but normally it’s enough to use Board Setup → Design Rules → Constraints for minimum values and then set Clearance, Track width, Via size and Via hole in Net Classes for each net class. And if you need to ask what are net classes, you probably only need the Default one.
Also, these clearance lines are only for you during layout. They will not show up in the Gerber files, so no need to worry about the board house seeing them and getting confused. They have their own tools to find clearance violations in the submitted Gerber files while prepping for manufacturing.
BTW Wouldn’t it be a good decision to place this option in the objects sidebar:
It’s a bit burried within the preferences.
The presets would have effect on this setting too.
(The current v6.99 has some new cool settings at the objects sidebar but this wasn’t included.)
Probably intimidated because you were mentioning of measurement standard I am not familiar with and the thought that so many tiny variables are involved here that you have to be aware of that can potentially make or break my PCB designs. So initially I didn’t clearly understand what you were saying now after reading all your posts again and converting the measurements to SI units things are getting clearer for me.
What about it, do you mean that if I keep the drill diameter and the number of different sized holes used in the PCB to a minimum that can may potentially reduce cost?
Thank you for the invite and helping attitude all of you are showing here, its really appreciated and I did learn a lot from here. I will try to make the best use of this forum in my new journey, which I kept deferring for quite too long. And the the thought for posting my ‘first’ PCB (I had tried few times before and abandoned.) for review surely crossed my mind couple of times but the thought of feeling of embarrassment to show out my newbie mistakes to a larger knowledgeable audience and my self doubts about use of English language properly to communicate my thoughts were keeping me away from making such a post. I will try to be less harsh on myself and ask my doubts on PCB design and KiCad more freely here.
Thank you it’s really clear now.
Thank you for those insights. Now I am into the learning mode of finding out best track width for each type of connections (nets) between component, I know it depends mostly on basic electronic principles but do you have any general suggestions.
Also might cost more as the SMD component sizes go down? I am indeed trying to use some SMD components in my first board which I can hand-solder.
Thank you. Do you suggest any minimum values for differential pair tracks and copper to edge clearance here.
Thank you for the reassurance, appreciate it.
No. Formats larger than 100x100 and drill diameters below 0.3mm infer additional fees. Number of different drill sizes does not matter.
I’m talking about JLCPCB here and their 5 bucks prototype boards. PCBway is similar.
Btw, I’m no JLCPCB agent
As I already wrote: go to the board houses and check their capabilities. 0.3 - 0.4mm for copper-to-edge are quite common.
Btw, those depend on the desired impedance. Has nothing to do with manufacturers or pricing.
Rather than feeling embarrassed, treat the reviews as mental exercises for we “not so youthful” forum dwellers… Your contributions will help in the prevention of our brains turning to senile mush.
The same applies for the English Second Language problems.
For many, many years I was using 10 mils / 10 mils (track/clearance).
Then I changed it to 10/8 (but allowing myself for 8 mils tracks if needed). But for zone fills I still used 10 mils clearance.
When moved to KiCad I changed from (standard in PCB technology) mils to mm.
Now 10/8 → 0.25/0.2 (but allowing myself for 0.2 mm tracks if needed). And, not surprising, zone clearance 0.25 mm.
My 2 layer PCBs are designed that way, that whole bottom side is GND zone. So I don’t have other vias then GND. I use as typical via hole 0.5mm as I treat it as power connection and not signal. For power pads (under ICs) i use via hole 0.3mm. For via stitching of big GND islands at top with GND at bottom I use via hole 0.7mm, but I consider to replace it with 0.5mm in future.
For VCC tracks I mainly use 1mm track, but sometimes up to 2mm.
An example of such designed PCB you can see here:
Hand-soldering SMD is even simpler than soldering THT. You need not to revert PCB all the time. 0603 is easy to solder provided you have right soldering iron.
I use a small oven for modified pizzas with MCU temperature control.
I must say that it works perfectly after doing some test welds.
Cards with SMD components are fine.
I use a small oven for modified pizzas
A geunine wooden fired oven?
Sorry guys, but I belive the discussion is misleading. One thing is the manufacturability, which should be no matter for industrial suppliers. Hand soldering requires a little bit more distance for the solder pads but the real reason is different.
You may have a look on the pcb calculator section of the KICAD suite. There you will find a rider for electrical distance. You will clearly see, that for different applications you will need different clearances to ensure the voltage hardness of your PCB. The larger the applied voltage, the larger the required clearance.
So if one device is designed for high voltage application, the clearance must be much higher than for low voltage operation, otherwise you can meet an impressive firework one time…
But from the given sample from straubm I doubt that this is the real reason for this different clearance…
Sorry guys, but I belive the discussion is misleading.
I don’t know how this would be misleading. Well, it could have been mentioned explicitly that we are talking about minimum requirements for manufacturability only, not from electrical standpoint, and you need to know more about electronics and clearances and copper width/thickness if you are going to design with high voltage, high power or high speed.