Just upgraded to 5.0.2_1 from my 4.0.5 PCBs. I followed the published procedures on how to make that migration and that part works fine and makes dealing with symbols, footprint and 3d object libraries really nice to work with. However, I’ve got several issues with the software I can’t figure out how to correct.
1. Edge Cuts that was a special PCB shape with some large circular cutouts in the board no longer work.
The circular Edge Cuts in the middle of the board that I need to clear certain objects do not show up properly in 3D mode view mode. I’ve even tried drawing a new (not imported DXF shape) circle on the Edge Cut layer and it still fails. This is a serious lose of functionality that may cause me to have to revert back to 4.0.5 (or 4.0.7) as they seem to work correctly.
2. The various PCB layers are not showing properly in terms which is in front of which. F.Crtyd and F.Silk, etc. are underneath everything else.
The only way I can see these items is to turn off the other items such as copper, pads, masks, etc. I’ve tried just about everything I can trying to see what is going on or if there is something I need to reconfigure to make everything to show up properly in the PCB new mode.
Can someone help me with this? I’m hoping it is just something that I’ve got to reconfigure. If not, I’ll have to back out 5.0.2 and revert to 4.0 code.
Can you share a board file with only the edge cuts layer?
You could also use a current nightly build (Which will be released as version 5.1 within a week or two.) and run DRC as it now checks for correctly created edge cuts drawings (non self intersecting closed polygon) and points to problem areas. (The new snap to endpoint feature also makes it a lot easier to work with complex drawings.)
This is simply how the modern renders work. The layer that is currently active is always shown as the topmost layer. (The active layer is the one with the little blue arrow next to it in the layer list)
You can assign transparency to layers if you want to see through them. Changing the transparency is done by left-clicking on the colored field next to the layer name and selecting change layer color. (The transparency slider is found somewhere on the right side of that dialog.)
The legacy renderer used xor rendering instead of the more modern idea of transparency. (My guess is that transparency is natively supported by opengl and possibly even supported by graphics cards meaning hardware acceleration is possible with it. I doubt something similar is possible with xor rendering.)
For zones it might be best to view them in outline mode until you need to see how they look in detail.
Here’s the .DXF file. Import this to a new PCB as the Edge Cut layer and you will see that it doesn’t render correctly in 3D view. (It also is a PITA because if you move the mouse just a little bit, your “Import to Center of the Page” is screwed as it moves! I don’t see any need for that as you can select and move the Edge Cut later.)
It could be the problem is with the 3D rendering although I’ve “fiddled” with just about all the Display and Render settings and it doesn’t seem to help.
The above file is used to define the complex shape of PCB’s that go into the back of backlighted Aviation LightPlates. The big cutouts allow the toggle switches to clear the PCB and the Acrylic Lightplate.
It also looks like you have the same problem if you just take and outline a simple rectangular PCB Edge Cuts and then draw large Circles with the drawing tool on the Edge Cut Layer. Try that too and I think you’ll see that holes in the middle of the board don’t render. Again, I’m beginning to think this is a 3D render software issue.
As for the strange layer stacking, it really makes no sense to me why they departed from the way it displays in 4.0. The normal layer stacking worked fine. I’ll try using the transparency but that seems like a rather ridiculous solution. I don’t think any of the other PCB layout software packages out there has this layer visibility stacking/order problem. Bummer. I’ll also try generating Gebers and Drill files and then do a GerbView to see if the resulting PCB looks correct.
I really hate to have to go back to 4.0 but I don’t see any significant advantages in 5.0 over 4.0 except in library management. (I don’t need that as I understand how to text edit the environment to accomplish that in 4.0).
For some reason there are two identical circles in the same location for each big hole. Remove the superfluous duplicates and the round holes will become visible in the 3D view.
It is interesting that the double circles don’t cause problems in 4.0. Maybe they can touch that up in a new 5.0 release. It seems that one circle negates the other.
I want to stay with 5.0 if I can figure out good solutions to these two problems. You just helped find a solution to the 3d View issue. For now, I just need to look for and find the double circles and that is solved.
However, the PCB pros at the big shops agree that the Layout stack needs to get sorted back to the normal way to view so the layers are in the right order as they were in 4.0.
If you really can not work with the modern rendering then switch back to the legacy toolset. Be aware that it will go away and it has a lot of features missing.
I also really do not agree that one needs to view the pcb with the layers ordered as they will be produced while developing the board. Or do you want to always have the back copper layer blocked by the front one? (Or even worse by one of the silk layers which really add nothing while laying down tracks.)
The fab and courtyard layers are also not put on the board. Where should they be displayed? (Both have much more important info for the design process than the silk layer so i typically only show these two plus copper while i work on the board. Near the end of the design process i doa “make silk pretty” run. which is the only time-instance where i show these layers.)
I have no practic in using KiCad (last 20 years I have designed PCB using Protel). I can’t imagine working if I not see at front the layer I am working on. If the PCB is installed in the box that way that the SMD elements are on oposite side I used to design such boards placeing all elements at bottom side so the interface elements (LEDs, bottons) were visible as user will see them. I would probably can’t work if anything placed on top would hide tracks I am routing.
Rene,
Thanks for your input and help on these problems. It is really appreciated. Also please be aware I’ve been pushing KiCad as a great PCB software to many others in my hobbyist flight simulator forums. I’m pleased that it is moving forward in many areas and over the years has gotten better and better (with a few exceptions to be and problaby are being worked on) vs. Eagle (especially now that it is subscription software) and other very expensive PCB design software.
However, by going back to the layer stack display 4.0 had, it should not be an issue as the adjustable Opacity function on all layers provides all the tools needed to allow “individual” layers to be seen. You can then have the best of both worlds that the two of us are talking about and then KiCad closer matches the super $$$ pro PCB design software and will continue to compete with them.
For now, it appears that I can use the layer Opacity function as a “Work Around” for this issue and continue forward using 5.0.2. However, I really want KiCad to be able to fully compete with those big $$$ packages so if the Devs can revert to the layer display stack order of 4.0 that will help. Either that, or simply add a feature that allows the User to specify the order that the stack is displayed. That too provides both ways to work with the PCB that we have been discussing. If this is currently available but I’ve missed how to do it, please tell me how to change that order. Additionally, It “looks” to me that the comments by Piotr (if I understand those comments correctly) also punctuates my point.
I’m trying very hard to understand what your problem with layers is. When you select a layer as active in the right side Layers Manager the selected layer is seen on top of others. For example the F.Silk layer is actually on top of other layers, not blended with other layers as in the legacy mode. When I’m drawing tracks on the bottom side I see the bottom side copper on top of other things. With different combinations of Layers, Items, the selected active layer and the High contrast display mode (in the left side toolbar) I can see almost exactly what I want. The only thing I miss is the ability to define the color and especially opaqueness of zones apart from other copper.
Can you give two screenshots which show the difference and the problem? I would like to know what is this thing which makes KiCad inferior to other EDA software.
I just did a little test in KiCad V5.0.2
I opened a PCB, and drew 2 circles and a pentagon (with line function) on it.
All 3 objects were yellow in the 3D viewer. They did cut through the solder mask but not through the yellow copper (Why is copper yellow?)
Then I thought a bit and had an Eureka moment.
I pressed “b” to regenerate the zones and then I could see the holes in the PCB. (In Pcbnew and in the 3D viewer.)
I would also like to see a screenshot (of a simplified design?) of the layers problem. The most logical seems that KiCad is working “as designed”, but the design is not very user friendly. Yes, you can set transparency of layers, but if you first edit the top layer with a opacity of 50%, and then draw on the bottom layer, you probably want the opacity of the bottom layer to change to 50% and the opacity of the top layer to change from 50% to 100%.
It may also be usefull to keep for example the Top Silkscreen always viewable on top. This helps with orientation on the board.
I believe OP’s problem with layers and transparency is “I was used to it being the old way” with the odd color addition that legacy toolset does to overlay layers.
I think difference is well illustrated here
