Autoroute? Is it coming? (Mod edit, short answer is not in the foreseeable future so nothing to see here. ;) )

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Writing a GOOD auto router is a very complicated task. a lot of them are somewhere between bad and mediocre, the better ones can be difficult to setup properly. Result is that many people do not even bother anymore to try to use one. The only guarantee you have is that it costs a lot of time to learn, do retries, verify afterward etc. For those reasons and probably more, I (and others) are quite happy with the interactive router.

But the Interactive router can be extended and enhanced in many ways with (semi) automatic routing. This will speed up the routing process, while you still have lots of control over what is going on.

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Looks like Paulvdh has not used a PCB CAD. I have used one and its autoroute works well. I wouldn’t let it handle whole board, but it routes single track or tracks well. Setup was simple, it needed track widths and distances between objects.

But it wasn’t free, not even close.

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@cal-linux

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Remarkably and fully in agreement with you.

One thing is to route 2 tracks for a couple of L.E.D.s, another stuff is to work with very complex systems. No one can forbid me to do them just for my pleasure “because his/her philosophy related autorouting”.

I don’t want to convince anybody, since religions are not deletable, and this is valid for both sides. But I want to spend my 2 cents.

As several times I said: when a feature is present, who need it, uses it. Who doesn’t, s not required to be forced to use it.
But in 2021-2002 almost, having not this feature, adn reading certain comments “against” it, it should be an alarm o ask to be back to the acetate and Ink, like we were used in in the '80s.
So why still use a CAD and develop KiCAD when the “stone-age era was better”?

To me: no sense at all.

If I have to install any other CAD to use the PCB autorouter, at this point in time, I just use these CADs for the whole project. Don’t need to jump from one CAD to another.

With the external tool: FreeRouter
Yes everything has is quirks , but I remember when I was making a very dense circuit and FreeRouter employed 12 seconds to route it.
Yes I employed after that 5 minutes to adjust the strange things this free algorithm have made, but it saved me hours. Who wants to be “back in the days”, is free do not use it, but not free to try to impose the other ones, and to convince them that “without is all the universe better” because simply: it isn’t.
Although the very last version of FreeRouter suffers of more issue than the previous one and I still use the previous not because I’m “sticked to the past, like a mussel on the sea rocks”, but because it has not the issue I detected and I was not able to make it works properly.

The day in which I will be able, I will update it.

I full understand the issues with an external tool and the extra-work to do with this kind of implementation. It’s comprehensible the “OMG no, let’s postpone it, we need an appropriate project for”, but in 2021 almost 2022 a CAD like this, so advanced, having not an autoroute in some way as option/feature, is quite limping.

Be my guess

All this above is IMHO

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Free, Open Source explains why not.
If all users paid US$5,000.00 each, every year, there would probably be an Autoroute yesterday.
also: JMHO. :slightly_smiling_face:

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It’s not that simple. Developing such an feature has also drawbacks for users who don’t use it.
Examples are:

  • The devlopment takes time from other “basic” features (the developers-time is endless, so they have to prioritize) so that other features get delayed (or not implemented at all).
  • the developed new autorouter has to be maintained over time. This eats up additional bugfixing-time.
  • every new feature complicates the user-interface. The chance is higher to falsely change settings which influence the board/schematic/work if there are more settings.

my thoughts to autorouting: better concentrate on other tasks instead of a full featured autorouter. As a sort of compromise I find the “autocomplete track” in Circuitstudio a good comfort-feature for noncritical tracks, saved much mouse-movement. No extra settings needed, worked as “autorouter for single tracks”.

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@jmk not only it’s not a justification, it’s also a bit ridiculous (without offense) to extract only what is “comfortable” trying to pilot the argument in favor pof the “no-thesis”. Indeed I also told:

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BTW there are other free applications that have this feature built in.

The point is: if you make something that is supposed to create interests and it’s proposing to go toward a certain direction, you should not go backward in time proposing “stone-age” when the world is going ahead.

Many applications/OSes/OtherStuff are Free and Open Sources, first Linux, and they are not second to anyone. So the fact that’s “free”, doesn’t have any meaning rather than to say “just we no want, we don’t care about you, go away if you don’t like”. If hits is the mindset: “asta la vista” then

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@mf_ibfeew While I was posting my previous comment, I received your and now I read it.

Yes, under this point of view it’s ok. I mean: it’s more acceptable rather than to say “it’s free, that’s why”

however I continue to use the FreeRouter as far as it brings added value as it did several times.
of course with much simpler project, I do it manually. I find it more comfortable.
To use an autorouter for simple circuits,it’s to pretend to go to run the Paris Dakar with a Ferrari … it doesn’t make sense :slight_smile:

I hope in the future this feature will be added. It will make KiCAD really complete.

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This
I have seen autorouters doing a good job, but after an expert took several days setting up net priorities, classes, and getting a good footprint placement.

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Hi @tormyvancool ,

This comment:

Was an all encompassing comment about:

Are the current developers interested in designing an Autorouter? (they give their time and abilities for nothing so it is not a good idea to insist they follow certain paths).
Are the current developers capable of designing an Autorouter?
If this was a “PAID FOR” site, lots of money would be available to hire specialist programmers or hire the current programmers to develop an autorouter.

I’m sorry, but I fail to see how the lack of an autorouter is a regression to the stone-age and the existance of an autorouter is a world advancement.

I believe, at this time, Kicad has neither the resources nor finances to develop an autorouter of the quality that befits the rest of this program.

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@jmk
“I’m sorry, but I fail to see how the lack of an autorouter is a regression to the stone-age and the existance of an autorouter is a world advancement.”
it is a tool that can make KiCAD very appetible for very complex projects as well AS FAR AS:
They can develop an autorouter that has the necessary quality (as you highlighted in bold).

IF to do that, resources and finances are required, well consider that to develop this CAD, also resources and probably finances were required (time is money).

HENCE I do hope the integration of this feature will be considered in the future. Why not to make the history creating one? Or better: why do put the feet ahead to a “we can’t” attitude?

Let’s the doors opened :wink:

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It’s pointless to debate here, you have zero control and about as little influence on anyone who can make such a feature happen. Unless you happen to be a developer yourself, in which case get to work.

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I have only made smaller easier boards, I think my largest had around 1000 components. Mostly uncritical on/off signals. But as always, there was also some tight spots where autorouter helped.

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Hi rich55,

As a newbie I too longed for an autorouter.

But as I am now just moved up to a novice I can appreciate why having an autorouter is a bad thing. There are SOO many factors to consider when laying down tracks and ARs just do not consider unless you pay SERIOUS money.

Learn your craft and learn KiCads hotkeys. You must consider it’s not just an autorouter but you ought to have an auto placer then what about an auto gate switcher on logic ICs etc etc wher does it stop??

Just do the thing manually it works out quicker and beter in the long run - honestly bud it does

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Turn key cloud service?

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@Docara if it was a bad things, not one in Industry was using it.
Instead of it’s an excellent thing, when properly made. You were not even here to talk about if your PCBs of your PCs, Phones, Tablets, where not made by the use of a valid autorouter.

There is a kind of “we can’t” mind-set above the Autorouter that hasn’t a real justification rather than sophisms. yes: you need to learn how a PCB is made as novice. But no one is obliging you to use an autorouter then. Right? If you don’t like: just avoid it

But at the same time, something like this tool, once well done, is really a great thing.

I do hope in a change of mindset. Historically many free/open source project have taken places in Industry as well, so good they are made. Hence, there is not a real “no-go” rather than the volounty do not do it.

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I don’t think you actually understand the issue if you talk like this. The developers know what they want to do and what not, and what are their limits and strengths, and what’s good and relevant for the KiCad project, and how to give their best for the benefit of the project. I don’t understand how that would be “sophism”.

It would really take several manyears to develop something useful, and that would be taken from the other features because as far as we know, nobody from outside the current development team is willing to take that task.

I can’t see any “we can’t” mindset in the KiCad project. There are other possible features, too, which are wished for but not developed because they would not benefit KiCad optimally (e.g. panelization), and some features which are not in the core of schematic/layout design but still are planned because there exist people who are willing to work on them (e.g. FEM integration).

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Competition is good, and lowers the cost of (other) Cad software packages, too. Autoroute is one important feature of costly PCB CAD SW.

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@LM21 fully agree. It will make the history.

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Any idea is this PCBRouter able to do something yet? README on git page does not tell much from the current features.

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As has been pointed out, this is a matter of resources and ‘opportunity costs’. KiCad aspires to be a professional level EDA software but is only supported by a small team of volunteer developers. There are lots of plans for future developments - here is a roadmap but you will see that autorouting is not included - KiCad Future Versions Roadmap · Wiki · KiCad / KiCad Source Code / kicad · GitLab
There is an excellent and industry standard method to export a board from KiCad to any autorouter you wish
and plenty to choose from - Freeroute, Topor, Spectra, Electra, Konekt, whatever and a mechanism within KiCad to reimport the result so there is already a way of doing this using both free (Freerouting) or commercial solutions
Nobody is saying that they despise or don’t see any value in autorouting, it is simply that this may be something that perhaps is better done outside or at least separate to the KiCad project.
If there were unlimited resources particularly if there were a number of developers to join who were motivated, I guess this might be different but even then I suspect they would be better placed writing an open source alternative tool.

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