Will "Getting Started" tutorial be updated?

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22 (cont) found my problem. I was clicking on the left hand icon which is identical (except in function) to the right hand icon I should have been using. So back to noting issues.

“pad in zone” appears to be “pad connections” now
“zone edges” appears to be “outline slope”
and needs to change from “arbitrary” to “H, V, and 45 deg only”
OK brings up a “no layer selected” error box so more is obviously needed.
clicked on gnd in net (which highlighted probably incorrectly!) and then on B.Cu in Layer on the top left which is probably the correct thing to do.then the refill all zones worked.

4.2

2 browse brings up the default tutorial1 directory but OK raises a dialog box “Do you want to use a path relative to C:\Users\Owner\Documents\kicad\tutorial1” to which I replied no. An explaination of why or why not that was correct would be useful here for a newbie. I happen to like fully qualified path names but there may be a good reason to have a relative one in this or some case that I don’t know.
That said, the last layer loaded is the only one I can see. Clicking on the right hand menu doesn’t change layers for me (nor does anything else I’ve tried). Ah, right click on the on the
right hand Visibles menu and a dialog box comes up with default “show all layers”. Clicking on
“hide all layers but active” does what is desired (and should be documented here). Looks like
it is a two step procedure. I have to change the layer in the pull down menu on the tool bar then
right click in Visibles and select “hide all layers but active” to get it to change.

3 by default F.Cu, B.Cu, B.SilkS, F.ClikS, B.Mask, F.Mask were selected (foolishly I made changes before thinking and I’m pretty sure it has remembered at least some of my changes even though I canceled and restarted, for instance Edge.Cuts is selected, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t initially).
The question is: is the suggested layer selection still valid? It looks so to me (for instance I don’t think bottom layer silk screens are common, but I could be wrong). Someone knowlegable should probably check the advise is still current.
With that I’m far enough to try a real (if simple) board before looking at autorouting, so I’ll cease bothering you for a while and someone in a private email has pointed me at the documentation folks URL as a more appropriate place for this…

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Can I humbly suggest keep posting here in this thread? As well as notifying the documentation folks? I mean, you are doing wonderful work (christ what a mess of a “getting started” guide" lolz)… but who knows how long it will take for the “documentation folks” to implement your hard work into the guide? At least here us trainees have something we can lean on.

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There may be some hope for updates as the person that sent me the private message indicated
he may add some of my updates. Apparantly you have to make (split off a fork?) a github repository,
then install and learn to use the document formater to change the document then push(?) your changes which will then be reviewed by the document maintainer. Looks to be more work than I want to get in to at the moment. The mismash above was as simple as open notepad and make notes as I hit issues then post them here in the hope that they would be useful to someone, i not the documentation folks then perhaps to the next new user that hits some of the same problems and looks to the forums. This was more or less a one time thing as the first time through everything is new and I noticed all the inconsistancies. It was not a lot of work (although not zero either) and hopefully will be useful to someone else (although the format is horrible because I expected it to be for a document maintainer familiar with both Kicad and the document, not as the documentation!), if not the document maintainers then perhaps to some other newbie that runs across the same problems I did. Being a Kicad user for all of three or four days, I doubt I’m qualified to update the documents. A number of the issues I hit need some one familiar with Kicad to tell us how it should be done (and that certainly isn’t me :slight_smile:

Peter Van Epp

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[quote=“Andy_P, post:47, topic:1463”]
He can also work on the documentation himself, and submit patches, which I’m sure the documentation maintainers will appreciate.
[/quote]I’d like to reply to this frequently expressed advice / sentiment for newbs to “get involved”. Speaking as a newb myself, and running into similar difficulties with incomplete or (worse) erroneous documentation, it’s my opinion that this is well-intentioned perhaps, but nevertheless misplaced advice. If I am going through “Getting Started with KiCAD” it should be fairly obvious that I have no idea if my difficulties are actually with the program, the document, or my own faulty understanding of the concepts being communicated. It’s frustrating to spend a significant chunk of time attempting to understand a problem, and being casually told by some more experienced person, “Oh, yeah, the docs are incorrect… Why don’t you fix it!” Comes across as lazy or arrogant at best. I’m still trying to learn the program, and now I have to:
(1) Sign up for a developer account with GitHub.
(2) Learn to use GitHub, including learning abstruse terminology like forking, pull request, and the like, and (presumably) gain some understanding for their ramifications in the specific context of the KiCAD project
(3) Learn to use the “Document formatter”
(4) Make edits to documents to fix something that may only be an artifact of my own incomplete and uninformed understanding of a massive, complex program that I have all of 3 days experience with.
(5) After all this, I can submit my (quite possibly completely incorrect) changes, which will then:
(6) Be reviewed by the person who (presumably a volunteer) is responsible for maintenance of the document, who will then:
(7) approve (or deny) the changes.

This is quite a lot to ask of someone who:
(A) Is just trying to see if this program is actually as useful as it purports to be
(B) Is still (presumably) devoting his maximum effort and time to LEARN the program

Seems to me that Mr vanepp has done quite a bit more than a lot of folks would do in his circumstances, and in fact, I was following a similar path myself, after “Getting Started in KiCAD” blew up on me as well. I have similar objections to him at this attitude commonly echoed on “Open Source” program forums. It is in fact a totally reasonable request to make of someone who has:
(A) Learned to use KiCAD
(B) Loves KiCAD and wants to make sure it gets a wide a dissemination as possible
© Has overcome the difficulties in the documentation himself and has sufficient insight and understanding to suggest whether the document should be amended, and how.
(D) Has enough available time and resources to meet all the additional requirements to be a document maintainer (see above list)

In short, it is quite possible that the person making this suggestion to the complete newb, is in fact probably much better placed to do all these things, and the community (and the KiCAD project) would be better served for him to take his own advice, if he (presumably) knows so much about it.

I think that the best thing one can make to newb who is struggling with a mistake in the documentation is to facilitate the corrections to the document by either:
(A) Facilitate the newb’s communications with someone who is actively involved in maintaining the docs (presumably someone is doing this, or else who is reviewing the proposed edits?) with a link, or a PM with an email address, etc.
…OR…
(B) In the spirit of Open Source, with your greater insight and understanding of the project, help them with whatever their issue is, and pass an appropriate suggestion along to either the document team, or file a bug report, etc. for them.
…AND…
Save your “Just Fix It Yourself! It’s OPEN SOURCE!!” exhortations for someone who already knows the program well enough to know if he’s just making a newb mistake, and is hence more qualified to actually make the corrections.

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This was a very dormant thread. Tutorials should be for the stable release and are best written by a user of that version. Therefore the developers are the worst people to do so.
General users with a few boards of experience on stable are best placed and can really help the project by contributing to all documentation. Some extra translations would be nice too

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Since this thread the documentation has in fact been updated, so somebody “up there” is helping us out, and thank you! I’m not sure how much revision will be required for Kicad 5?

There’s actually quite a few learning resources for Kicad noobs now, we’re fortunate. I do agree it can help to follow a fellow noob’s learning journey via a blog or something.

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mollux, andy_p, vanepp:
Noob here - I spent >8hrs yesterday ATTEMPTING to get thru the Getting Started doc. What a mistake. Fortunately I stumbled onto this thread and was relieved to discover that I was neither “special” nor stupid.

I was however, EXTREMELY dismayed (I’d use some other term, but there might be some young impressionable eyes here) to find that these issues are OVER 3 YEARS old and not resolved. Even worse -probably not even seriously addressed.

It’s just my opinion, but, the Getting Started doc. should AT LEAST come with a dire warning regarding it current state.

To each of the issues that you (all) have raised, I can only offer an Amen Brother.

-JustAnutterNube-

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Take a look at the FAQ section of this forum for additional help: (Start Here) Frequently Asked Questions

And remember that a lot of people who would help out with documentation are currently holding back as v5.1 is very near. v5.1 will bring a lot of updates to the user interface which means documenting v5 does not really make much sense at this point in time.
(Even some of my FAQ tutorials are already made for v5.1. These sections are however clearly marked so you should be good to go.)

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I have been going through the Getting Started document, updating it for the upcoming 5.1. I’m just another volunteer and it requires inspiration. I have hoped to get it ready for 5.1 release but don’t promise anything. I waste my time with many things, KiCad is only one of them.

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