Who does everybody use to make their PCBs

Manufacturing
14

I got two stencils from them so far (Ele) for different 100x100 mm pcbs without frame (frame seems to be the edges folded up and out with 2 bends to make it stiffer… I have a jig, so don’t need/want that).
I’d even go so far as to say that a frame will be bad if you want to do it free-flying on a desk by taping the pcb down and the stencil as well (so you can lift it up on a tape-hinge without loosing alignment).

The stencils I ordered in 20x25 cm and had both front and back side by side with a space between the pcbs of ~5 mm (when you aligned the pcbs to fit the stenciled pads).
The thickness varies… one has got 0.15 mm and the other 0.17 mm. I didn’t see an option that I could specify the thickness when ordering the pcbs… for ordering stencils only it’s adjustable.
Naturally I wouldn’t have a clue what thickness I would need. I see a question coming up on the forums about that… :slight_smile:
The stencil quality is good and they work. Wouldn’t have thought that some of the smaller pads would actually disperse paste to the pcb, but they did.

The frameless stencil is wrapped for transport onto a thin board of HDwood that seems to be a broken up pieces of the stuff they put under pcbs for milling/drilling.

The thing I’m not so fond of (but don’t have the know-how yet to know it better or what I want) is that they seem to adjust the pad sizes and formats how they see fit.
If you got a thermal pad (for example a simple SO-8 PowerPAK with a single solder pad for that), they did divide that into 4 smaller pads, automatically, no questions asked.
I didn’t measure it yet (but will), but I think they adjust stencil pad size from paste mask size downwards a bit.
For one of the pcbs I already did that in KiCAD before making the gerbers… for the other I can’t remember.
Just be aware that stuff like this can happen… if you’re a noob that might be good, if you’re a pro that means you just lost control of your process.

I’ll post a thread in projects I guess on this with some pics when I reflow again…
Should be in 1-2 weeks.

PS: also don’t use arcs/circles on Silkscreen with them (Ele)… they won’t print with certain of their fabs (they seem to use several fabs to make pcbs), one of them can’t print circles/arcs on silkscreen and does adjust soldermask how they see fit.

PPS: I didn’t have a need yet to communicate the automatic processes that seem to be running there and modify my work, but I will have to in future. Definitely easier with a local shop, but the price is magnitude(s) higher then naturally too.

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15

Hi

I use smart-prototyping. I give them 100/100. I made a few bare boards and one pre-production SMD prototype. Pcb, sourcing, assembly. Every time I got perfect product. Also, people there are very friendly and helpful. I changed gerbers, parts after order and there was not a problem. I was quite a nuisance for them, they are, especially Minnie, very very kind, helpful and nice
I recommend them.

Tom

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16

“Pololu Robotics” ( https://www.pololu.com/product/446 ) has been recommended as a stencil supplier in some web pages (e.g., “Solder Paste STenciling” at https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/58 ) I have no affiliation with them and have never used them.

What they supply is a laser-cut plastic stencil that should be suitable for manual assembly of a handful of boards, up to perhaps a few hundred boards for a short production run.

Dale

17

Over the last dozen years or so I have dealt directly or indirectly with about half a dozen “quick-turn” board houses. In terms of general fabrication characteristics, I can’t strongly recommend one over another.

(My worst batch of boards came from PCBWay a little over a year ago. I could detect mis-aligned drill hits with my unaided eyes. The accuracy was still within their advertised tolerance for hole positions, and certainly not severe enough to affect hand assembly operations, but it’s an area where they have room for improvement.)

Shop around based on price and delivery requirements. This isn’t always easy, since they seem to use different pricing methods. (E.g., one adds a charge for every drill size you specify, while another doesn’t.) And, they always seem to be running promotional specials - one guy gives you 10 boards for the price of 5; another gives you a 5-day turnaround for the price of a two-week turn; etc)

Dale

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18

http://www.basicpcb.com/
they are USA made, beautiful quality, ship in 4 days for free and they are cheap! Cant beat it.
since they are made in the US there is no waiting for customs to clear or expensive shipping costs.

19

@p0727 sounds like you work for ‘basicpcb.com’ do you get commission? I thought I would give them a test for a quote, boy they are expensive. I told them I had a 2" x 2" pcb and that I wanted 10 of them. Their quote was $86.75 and I have no idea if they were going to charge me shipping costs as I live in the UK. I didn’t want to progress with the order to see if the shipping was free is that was way too high for me.
Since my original question back in October 2015, I sent the below orders to the below people to check them out:

HackVana
Orders: 3
Price: Good, £15 for 10 lots of 5x5cm
Quality: Very good
Delivery Speed (to UK): 3 weeks

Seeed Studio
Orders: 2
Price: Very Good, £12 for 10 lots of 5x5cm
Quality: Not bad, some solder pads scratched up though
Delivery Speed (to UK): 3-4 weeks

Elecrow
Orders: 8
Price: Good, £10 for 10 lots of 5x5cm
Quality: Perfect, never an issue yet
Delivery Speed (to UK): 2-3 weeks

ITEAD Studio
Orders: 2
Price: Very Good, £12 for 10 lots of 5x5cm
Quality: Some perfect, some had slight issues with Silk Screening
Delivery Speed (to UK): 2-4 weeks

Smart-prototyping
Orders: 1
Price: Very Good, £12 for 10 lots of 5x5cm
Quality: Mainly perfect
Delivery Speed (to UK): 3-4 weeks

Until Elecrow mess up, they will always be my main supplier. I have to use Lead Free as I am in the UK and lead is a big no no. You get to choose the solder mask colour for no extra charge (I have used Green, Blue, Red and Black so far). They also don’t do any annoying serial numbers on the board for their use. I have even sent them some rather odd shaped PCBs and they never tried to charge me extra for it (although not done this with other suppliers to know if they would have asked for more money to be fair).

I think it comes down to where you live. In the UK, I might as well buy from China as they are just as quick as from the US but if you are from the US, sure they will be quicker. I would love to buy from the UK, but when I phoned 3 large companies asking for quotes for a 10 lots of a 5x5cm board the average quote was £350.
Not sure if I can, but I will try and attach a photo of 4 of the last boards I had made so you can see Elecrow’s work.

Cheers all
Alan

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20

Alan,
No, I don’t work at a fab house but I do have many many years of experience designing PCBs…

I live in the US and I’m sure many users of this forum will find it helpful that you can get boards made in the US in 4 days at a VERY low price without having to wait 3-4 weeks (like you mentioned above) from Chinese board shops.

Also, with BasicPCB.com you don’t have to order 10 like a lot of other proto shops I have used before. I have made several protos using basicPCB and since I only needed 3 or 4 pieces, I paid about $9 flat (USD).

Another proto place that doesn’t have a min quantity is http://www.sunstone.com/. They also ship free in the us and they start out at about $28 (USD) for a 1"x1" 2-layer board and go up in pricing by the square inch.

When I need medium to larger boards I use http://www.4pcb.com/ for their $33 each deal - no matter how big my boards are, they charge a flat $33 as long as I do not exceed 60 square inches and another trick is they they allow you to put several parts on the same 60 square inches in an array for a small fee.

Bottom line for me is that I rather spend a bit more and not have to wait a month for my project, so I for the most part stay away from the Chinese manufacturers.

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22

I have used Seeedstudio for most of my PCB projects when the PCB size is less than or equal to 10cm x 10cm. Of course you can buy bigger PCBs thru their service.

BTW, their new order page https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html is pretty easy to use.

23

It is a very interesting and long post.

It seems many of the guys have tried to purchase PCBs from China.

We have to admit that some PCBs in China are quite cheap.

I like do some comparison work before make a final decision.

So I tried to quote on PCBSHOPPER, 4PCB, dirty PCB are quite popluar among my friends.

Esp. for some strange boards:(

As for me , recently I placed an order from ALLPCB ,also learnt from PCBShopper… What attracts me most it their stencil actually , only $8.
Maybe a nice try for PCBs next time.

24

Here in Malaysia I have used Xintronics for several boards, no problems.
Slightly more expensive than China, but no lottery with customs

25

@Colinbenton Thanks for the info. That is something else I want to know more about, stencils. I have never made a PCB yet that required a stencil, but have plans on one. The issue is all the proper stencil jogs seem we over the money for somebody like me who works out of his shed! Can you and anybody else please tell me if you use stencils and how you use them. I have heard some stick old PCBs to a desk as a support then use sticky tape on the stencil to hold it down. Sadly I can’t see how this would be very accurate for some of the ICs that I am going to want to try out in a design.
Can people please upload their photos showing how you do it or what you have made/bought for stencils. If you can’t or don’t want to publish, PM me and I will gladly let you know my email so you can send direct to me. I realy want to work with them, but seems so daunting.

Thanks
Alan

26

I used this method for a 20x10 board where I had a stencil, but no jig to fit it it all into for alignment:

http://www.re-innovation.co.uk/web12/index.php/en/blog-2/317-surface-mount-pcbs

To find out if you like it or not it’s good enough.
An old credit card works as a make-shift scraper if you don’t have one.
Better is something of the same material that the stencil is… stainless steel sheet in cc size as the edge is sharper and gives better results.

Just remember to scrape under a 45 deg angle to the pads, to get them filled easily without air-gaps.
Might need several passes and there is no problem to do several, just don’t lift the stencil in between and make sure the surface you do this on is flat and stable to not have anything move. The tape you see in the picture hold everything pretty stable and keeps alignment of the stencil to the board well enough for 10 or so boards.

Paste I used the one that you can find all over ebay/aliexpress. Not the best, but does the job for prototypes.

Smallest pitch was 0.5 on this and worked pretty well.

PS: I didn’t use kapton stencils yet, nor do I intend to, seem a bit flimsy… YMMV though.

27

Well. When I need a stencil yesterday, I used a thick film for laser printers. But I have a manual stencil printer so I can stretch it to be more rigid.

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28

I use SEED Studio.

I have had five double sided boards manufactured by them and they have been excellent.

RJG

29

Hi Alan, Stencil is used for assembly, I may need do some simple assembly work, then stencil is used .

We bought stencils with Gerber files, dear , Gerber files is ok.
Once you have paste files, you can go and buy stencils.

30

some stencil are standard finish ,some are polished finish, the polished ones seems better.

31

Hi there,

a tiny “shameful” plug here.
If you want a European service with no import customs surprises, you can also head over to https://go.aisler.net. We support KiCad import out-of-the-box, offer affordable prices and give you ENIG plated, 70µm trace-width, fully e-tested circuit boards produced in a high-quality fab that usually does automotive and medical industry series production.

EDIT I: Shipping is free for orders above 30 EUR.
EDIT II: Since I received some questions about tooling costs and so on: these are all included in the price. Just upload your project and you will see a price, this price includes everything.

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32

Hi @Libermentix
I created an account on your web site and was very impressed on how easy it was to upload my Gerber files and see all the info. The only thing I thought was odd was that it only allowed me to select bmultiple of 3 of my PCB rather than just but 10 like most other companies. Still doesn’t really matter was more something I am not used to. Your prices are more than from China, but I think everything China is cheaper (apart from Twinkys or good 'old Marmite).
I will keep my account with your company and will gladly place an order as soon as I need my order quickly rather than the 1 month order to delivery time I get from Elecrow in China.

33

Hi @Colinbenton,
I don’t suppose you can send me some photos of templates you use and how you use them? I am still needing help on how people use templates. I was hoping for them to be framed for the actual PCB so you simply drop the PCB into the frame and it is all pre-aligned so then spread your solder paste and hey presto it is done. Sadly though from what I read out in the internet, it isn’t that way at all and can be quite tricky.
The templates I am interested is the metal/steel ones and not the plastic type.

Thanks

34

“ColinBenton” is just a spammer.

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