For very small scale “hobby manufacturing”, using mostly EAR99 (mature old) and “slow 50MHz single core MCU”, what is your experience with PCBWay, JLCPCB and or other similar China factories? Are they good?
How do you see recent/future tech restriction toward these very low-end electronics?
I have been completely satisfied with JLCPCB with several designs 2 layer and 4 layer. I am completely unfamiliar with “EAR99” but I have 2 EARS.
So is it “Here! here!” or “Hear! hear!”?
Many thanks
quoted "EAR99 items generally consist of low-technology consumer goods and do not require a license in most situations. "
Due to …, these ECCN numbers are nowadays printed literally at the middle of invoices from some vendors.
Are you asking about PCBWay and JLCPCB with respect to their PCB etch and drill services, or as a contract manufacturer (CM) for complete assemblies?
My employer uses each of them from time to time (probably 15 - 20 orders annually) for etched and drilled bare PCB’s. Delivery has occasionally been a day or two longer than expected but I suspect that’s a shipping problem not entirely under their control.
As for restrictions and regulations on technology import/export, here in the U.S. our government is presently in a volatile state and those factors could change from day to day. I’m starting to learn the lyrics to “O! Canada”.
Many thanks. I am asked about PCBWay, JLCPCB and may be others, with respect to
(a) their PCB etch and drill services,
(b) as a contract manufacturer (CM) for complete assemblies
Or, should we “Hear, here”?
Just my few (euro) cents:
I’ve used both occasionally (5-10 orders last year), but mostly JLCPCB. Their system for ordering parts/keeping inventory/etc is perfect. With that I can have fully assembled prototypes on my desk (in Europe) in cca 7 days after ordering (depends on how weekend fits into it).
I ordered a 6-layer ENIG boards with complete assembly at JLCPCB. It is a Raspberry Pi CM5 carrier board with M.2 SSD, USB3, etc… I do not have any fancy measuring equipment, but it works - for example, M.2 did transfer ~700MB/s over single PCI-E Gen3 lane without an apparent issue.
They offer a very cheap economic assembly, which can get really cheap if you modify the design accordingly, but I had once issue with a complicated USB-C connector using it - the connector had pins under the metal body and they got shorted. Using the standard process, everything went smooth…
Also my orders are for 10-50 boards max…
I have always had a simple rule - avoid getting work done in China for two weeks before and 4 weeks after Chinese New Year. They will be shut down / short staffed / back logged. You will get delays or quality problems if you break this.
Many thanks. How do their system of ordering parts/keeping inventory/etc. work? How/why you rate them as perfect?
I already have some components on hand and in tape.
Can I send them components, they make the PCB from my emailed files and assembly components? then send me the assembled board.
Should I ask them to send back un-used components or they can keep it as inventory. Do they charge handling fee for either of the method (send back or keep the components)
You’ll be liable for duties and hassles if you send them components from outside China.
You cannot have then send you the remaining parts. They can only be kept for future orders.
All this is in their webpages.
Can I have a feel on assembly fee.
Can you please “describe” the assembly labour cost? For example, xxx by yyy mm board, nnn layers, aaa count of components, mostly 0402/0603/etc (british mil), one side or both side populated.
Does both side populated board involve “extra special handling to ensure the populated side parts do not fall off”. I refer to small SMD parts, R, C, and chip. No heavy coil (as big coil in power supply). no through parts.
or it is simply flop over, put on parts and oven one more time. The populated side parts will adhere by surface tension force and not falling off.
Just submit a PCBA job and their website will give you a quote with breakdowns. You can cancel before checkout.
True, but if you want some spares on hand, go to https://www.lcsc.com/
Yes, it is a separate order and shipping as well, but handy to have some stock in-house for repairs and prototyping. I get some parts from time to time. Also interesting to get various terminal blocks, switches, and other bits I may want to design into a future board. Some parts you just need in your hand to appreciate.
Yes, sure! You can send them whatever you have, and they will try to assemble your wonderful board. Whatever it takes!
For example, I unfortunately tossed my SMD boxes of resistors and they all opened. I sucked them up with the vacuum cleaner and sent them the cleaner’s collecting bag, together with an order of my $5 board with a pink solder mask.
You won’t beliefe, but I got them all back, nicely sorted and each value in a new tape. All at no extra cost.
The disapointing part: They kept the dust bag. And it was full of bread crumbs that I intended to give to my bakery, so they can make me a new bread.
Some people do have expectations that are completely isolated from reality. But not me!
I’ve been using JLCPCB for about 3 years now. Place around 5 orders each month and have never had any issues.
Their web interface is easy to use. They have also picked up one or two problems with my board (my fault, missing drill holes, layers etc)
I’ve been looking at their assembly but for me it’s just too expensive when it comes to extended parts.
They change each time they need to change out the part (for extended parts which are not the normal jelly bean components like resistors, caps etc) so for my low volume stuff (5 or 10 PCB’s) it’s not really worth it. If I was to get 20+ or so made and assembled it might be better but I haven’t done the sums.
They also stock a huge number of parts which for a lot of them work out very cheap.
Just read their website, check demos, try placing order…
You can have your own personal stock for PCBA at their company. You can source the parts directly from JLCPCB library or from global sources (Digikey, LCSC, Farnell,… ). Basically what it means, that if you start designing a board around some IC, you check if it is available and buy it or source it from global seller - that can take some time, but you can do it even before you started your design… And as soon you have your design ready to order, you will probably have all parts on your private stock…
They have many tools on their website. Huge library of components (searching is sometimes painful but hey, it is a PCB manufacturer, not DigiKey…), BOM tool to calculate needed part amounts and check if they are available or whether you need to order them,…
It is possible, but there are restrictions, that can make it impossible, I would also be careful about it…
They make it crystal clear that they will not send the components back, and so far I am not aware of any fees for storing. Also now you can try to sell your unused parts to other JLC users…
Funny thing is that for some reason (probably customs, etc) they have strict rules about sending parts in orders… I ordered some 2.54 connectors (plugs and receptacles). I’ve had the receptacles assembled on the board with no issues, but I needed the corresponding plugs. So I included them in BOM and tried asking them just to “throw them into the box”, but they said it is impossible, I’ve had to have them assembled (inserted into receptacles)…
I guess it is subjective, but if you manage to fit into the economy assembly, you can have it for ~20 USD… My last order was: Setup fee: $8.00 , Stencil: $1.50 ,Extended components fee: $6.00 , SMT Assembly: $0.23 , Hand-soldering labor fee: $3.50, Manual Assembly: $1.32, Components: $8.69 for board like this:
This topic is starting to have not much to do with KiCad. And about one fab. Bottom line is read their website and get in touch with them if you are unsure of the quote. The customer reps are there to help.
I had only good experiences with JLC, including for PCBA, as long as I need nothing special. Flex-PCB with assembly were tricky and they were unwilling to replace the non-working boards. Same with press-fit connectors. Everything else seems good so far. Even for PCBs with more than 200 parts on them
