If I understand correctly (tell me otherwise), the new editing paradigm that is coming in version 6 is to first select an item and then perform the action on it. This is in contrast to the current paradigm of performing the action immediately on the item under your mouse cursor.
I find that a few things have changed to work that way, but either I’m misunderstanding the paradigm or it’s implemented inconsistently. In Eeschema for instance, the move and drag keybindings still immediately act on the item under your cursor, but duplicate or delete don’t. Is this on purpose? I can see that the interactive delelete tool might be intended to replace the old “delete stuff under your cursor” way of doing things, but can’t think of a reason for duplicate to be different from move. In Pcbnew, delete doesn’t work without selecting stuff first, but “Delete Full Track” (default hotkey Shift+Del) selects the item under your cursor and immediately deletes it (kind of like how backspace works in 5.1.9).
There are also other changes that might or might not be related. Pressing the add wire or add new track hotkeys In 5.1.9 would act like a mouse click, placing corners. This still works for tracks but not for wires in 5.99. Pressing the wire hotkey cancels the current wire and starts adding a new one.
I must say I’m sad to see the old paradigm go. I like it because you can do stuff very fast with few keypresses and without having to move your hand all over the keyboard (or is this called Stockholm syndrome?). Maybe it would be nice to add a checkbox for the “old way”, kind of like the “First hotkey selects tool” that’s there today.
I’d like to hear your opinion on this. Which way of doing things do you prefer? Are the inconsistencies bugs of features?
The new editing paradigm does not get rid of the “immediate actions” paradigm. The latter is now optional, you can disable it by turning on the “first hotkey selects tool” setting in preferences (ignoring the bug that I mentioned above, which currently means it doesn’t work for all actions)
Instead, the new editing paradigm means that you can drag-select things without immediately starting to move them around. This is how PcbNew worked (but not Eeschema) in 5.1
Ah, the “tool” label confused me. I started to developed a theory that the “Interactive Delete Tool” is a tool, but move isn’t a tool and tools don’t have immediate actions … It looks like I should have looked at older issues instead.
I didn’t know about the Backspace keystroke to immediately delete what is under the mouse cursor in pcbnew 5.1.9 until now. It works on everything—holes, tracks, vias, labels, footprints, etc. I am glad you pointed this out.
It is annoying to learn to do something and then have someone change it to make it better! It always requires work to learn the “new” way. This is lost time that is better spent on your project. I have seen this happen over and over again in many interfaces and packages. I call it the NIH syndrome. ( Not Invented Here ) A good example is the latest LibreOffice. The text control ICONs have become almost unreadable and I don’t know why. Please don’t make the same mistake with KiCad. I accidentally installed 5.9 and had problems. I couldn’t get the system to revert back to 5.1.7. I finally upgrade my distro after removing KiCad and then installing it. Other than that, thanks for a great tool!
I don’t agree. The new paradigm is just what many other programs use. Before 5.99 kicad was different from anything else. Im using it for many years now, got used to its quirks but i’m happy Things are going right direction.
It’s pretty much impossible to please all users. Renewing software is always a compromise. Either keep it the same and stop innovation and keeping up to date with the rest of the world, making it difficult for new users, or enhance and innovate, frustrating those old users who don’t feel need for change.
IMO KiCad project does a good job and a good compromise. The old editing paradigm in eeschema was probably from early 90’s and there was too much pressure to change it, not only for the user experience (especially for new users) but also for the back-end which was too limiting for new features. KiCad can’t stand still feature-wise when the rest of the EDA scene goes on.
Some old users appreciate unchanging old features, but an application which just keeps the old features and adds new ones will become an ugly monster, difficult to use for new users and difficult to maintain and develop. Revising the old features (moderately) is a must if the goal is to get better over long time.
Rearranging and changing things for changes’ sake is certainly a problem in the software industry. That said, I fully support the changes in eeschema and the symbol editor to bring the mouse behavior in line with all other CAD and design software on Earth including Inkscape, Illustrator, AutoCAD, and KiCad’s own PCBNew. Eeschema/symbol editor being a unique snowflake in how objects are selected has been very offputting for new users to learn.
As you already have the “typical” behavior in PCBNew, hopefully it won’t take long to unlearn eeschema’s eccentricities.
But I also pray the developers will keep an eye on the unconventional things a hobbyist like me loves: “modify any Pad in the existing layout, shift it, turn it, distort it”, ignore design rules". In short: PCB-Anarchy
(OK, I DO use a Schematic for all PCBs !)
With the exception of my early RULE I never had a layout program that gives me such a level of freedom while delivering all the stuff for professionals.
I agree. However, if the new way is easier and more natural, then I am willing to do the work in order to use it. However, this must be the default user interface. If I have to change 25 settings in various viewports, it won’t be quite so easy and natural. I will still change those 25 things, but my first experience “out of the box” won’t be so easy and natural.
I have not installed kicad 5.99 so cannot comment on its default user interface. On the other hand, I don’t hold kicad up to either user interface look-and-feel or to capabilities and features of commercial CAD programs for schematic capture and PCB layout. To me, kicad is just a FOSS drawing program encompassing these two very large sets of tasks. And a very good one at that.
What is FOSS? (Google does not help.) I don’t think it is the same as the FISH inventory system = First In Stays Here.
I am using 5.99. In most cases as some of the defaults change I notice something and adapt. But I am not so good at mentally capturing what has changed so as to describe it.