I’m trying to learn KiCad and I’ve noticed the Getting Started guide is for 8.0. I’m using 8.0.5 on macOS, so it seems it should be just like in the Getting Started, but I’m already finding differences that are confusing for a new user. The one I’m having problems with now is dealing with adding a component.
In the guide, it says to pick the default choice for importing symbols and footprints, which I’ve done. But, also, in the guide, the list of components includes generics, for instance, just an LED. (Well, I can’t show it because I’m new and allowed only 1 attachment per post, but it shows the ability to pick just a generic LED as a component.)
I don’t know all the LEDs listed and it’s going to take a good amount of research to make sure I pick something that works, but there are no generic components and this would be the same issue with pretty much any component I want to add.
Did I import the wrong table? If I have to check on every component listed to get specs before I put it in, and can’t just add a resistor, battery, capacitor, or other component without having to pick a specific brand and product, it’s going to take me forever to do anything in this.
(Another example of the tutorial not matching the interface is on Preferences. When I went under preferences to find trackpad settings, it’s not under that menu - what I got was not at all what the guide showed. I did find it under KiCad->Settings, so that wasn’t too hard, but both of these show that the guide does not match the program.)
Before installing KiCad (4.0.7) for the first time I have read the whole Getting Started to find then that it was practically for KiCad V3.
I didn’t read Getting started from those time. I suppose that nowadays it is closer to current version than those time but don’t assume it is up to date.
I suppose that when V8 is released the current V7 Getting started doc is copied, renamed to V8 and when people taking care of it have time it is successively edited to be for V8.
I am using only my own libraries which I simply know so no need to search. I’m not familiar with using default libraries. It looks like you extended LED library, while all generic symbols are in Device library. If you write LED in filter at top you should probably find LED in Device library.
I don’t have standard libraries to check it.
I did not see “Device” as an entry in the list. I would have thought that was not an entry like all the other component types. I expected that to be categorized differently and not just lumped in with things like “LED” that would give me a list of all the LEDs. I had not used the filter because I could see LED as a category and thought, “I found it, I don’t need the filter,” but once I typed it in, and LED came up, I was able to look at that entry and see it was under “Device.” (And by “Device Library,” I thought it meant the whole list of everything. The semantics is a bit confusing and I didn’t realize “Library” referred to any category and all the items in it. I thought it referred to the full list.)
Okay - I see how it’s working now.
Aren’t doc pages like that wikis? I may add in a few notes there and under the part near there where it talks about using the mouse and trackpad settings to make things clearer for new users. (I know - I probably have to have an account and I’m just submitting changes because I’m not at a high enough user level.)
The guide says to pick an LED symbol from the Device library. You are looking in the LED library. Do you find the symbol you’re looking for if you look in Device?
(Generally, the Device library contains generic symbols, e.g. a non-specific general LED, MOSFET, etc. If you want a specific LED or MOSFET you would go looking in the LED or MOSFET libraries.)
I’m the docs maintainer and you can also ask me questions here…
As for your preferences comment, on most platforms (linux/windows), Preferences → Preferences is the correct menu location. On macOS, KiCad puts it in a different menu to match the platform expectations there. I should add a note clarifying that, though.
@ImaginaryTango
Mark this: You’ll ALWAYS need the “Device” library, no matter what you do. A resistor, a decoupling capacitor, whatever. “Device” is your #1 go-to place.
This is especially important for a beginner, and it threw me as well when I started with KiCad.
A second tip: the standard libraries are read-only, you need to create personal libraries to modify or make symbols. Check the FAQ section (top of page) for more.
As I mentioned in my response to @Piotr, I misinterpreted the scope of the word “library.” I thought library was referring to the entire list of what I now know are libraries. I get it now. I’ve been reading this in pieces. I had hoped to have all of last Sunday to spend working on just learning the schematic editor, but, instead, I’ve only been able to spend about 20 minutes at a time reading through the guide over the past few days. I don’t know if I missed a definition of the term library or just assumed it was a broader scope than it was.
Thank you - I know that’s a LOT of work!
Okay, got it now - still learning how KiCad “thinks,” if you get what I mean. Some software goes by the Apple guidelines, some does not. I’m wondering if it’d be worth adding a note about that in that section (that it’s under KiCad->Settings). Part of my confusion was that when I installed KiCad, I was asked about what libraries or data sets to import and answered it. Then answered again at some other point (I forgot where), and when I went to Settings, I got what seemed to be the same dialog asking what, as best I could remember, was the same question. (And I got it again when I hit the icon to add components to the schematic.) So I was confused because Settings brought up only that dialog and nothing else, and it looked so similar to the one I already went through during installation. It made me think that was just a permanent option, making it possible to change what was imported if we changed our minds.
If I didn’t miss a definition or clear explanation of how the term “library” is used, I might suggest something to clarify that - perhaps with a screenshot or two, to make it clear each item in the main list opens to a library?
Actually, rather glad they’re read only, so I don’t make a mistake and change something important until I get used to KiCad. I’ve been reading about electronics since the 60s and have some knowledge, but not much experience, since I often did not have as much time to experiment as I would have liked to. So I’m new to designing my own circuits. I started with a PCM fan controller for a vent fan from a company that tries to lock everyone into their control system (and shuns all home automation protocols in the spirit of vendor lock-in). Others have done it with that fan, so I created an amalgamation for my circuit. I started with Fritzing, since people discussing the fan controllers on a marijuana growers’ forum (the only place I found helpful info!) were using it. But I found limits rather quickly and the people on Reddit and on a few other forums that knew what they were doing said they used KiCad for their schematic work - so I came here. This is quite a challenge learning KiCad from my level of experience. I know it won’t be fast, but I also can see how it’ll help me learn more about electronics and about doing circuit board design properly.
I do wish it also had a breadboard editor, along with the schematic and PCB editors, but I can work around that. I can see KiCad is very powerful and it looks like a serious, professional, tool. While I may not need something that advanced yet, I think I’m better off starting with it now than doing work in Fritzing or something else and later wanting to convert it all to a better program.
Found another issue. I don’t know if this is a documentation issue or a GUI issue.
In the section on “Selecting and Moving Objects,” in the Getting Started page (for the Schematic Editor), it states, " In KiCad 8.0, objects are selected by clicking on them. Additional objects can be added to the selection with Shift+click, or removed with Ctrl+Shift+click (macOS: Cmd+Shift+click). You can toggle an item’s selection state with Ctrl+click (macOS: Cmd+click)."
This may be an OS issue and I’ve also looked in Preferences to see if there’s something I’m doing wrong. Again, I’m on macOS, on a desktop, but I use a trackpad. I’ve set the Mouse and Touchpad settings to the default touchpad settings. I cannot select an object by left or right clicking. If I click on an object, I get the “Choose Symbol” dialog box. If I right click, I can cancel, zoom, or change the grid. So clicking on a symbol or the label belonging to it, I get the same result as if I click on an empty area of the sheet. Shift-Click and Cmd-Click - and, basically, any combination of modifier keys and a left or right click - does not do anything different.
The only way I can select an item is to hold down the left button (on the trackpad, it’s a single finger touch) and draw a selection box around most of the object.
So if there’s another way to select or something is different on a trackpad, then it’s a documentation issue. If clicking on an object is always the way to select it, then I guess it’s a GUI issue.
This tells that you have the Add Symbol tool active. In that case the tool icon in the right hand vertical toolbar is in selected state and you see the same icon next to the mouse cursor. You can simply press Escape or select Cancel in the Right Button menu to go to the basic state which is the Select tool, or you can select the uppermost button in the toolbar.
For me it rather looks that you understood Device Library having broader scope and meaning all libraries as there is nothing else than devices in libraries.
Libraries have so broad scope than I don’t think it is possible to assume they have broader scope than they have.
Association with devices and anticipating your future questions. Remember - there are no devices or elements in KiCad. At schematic you have symbols and wires at PCB you have footprints and tracks.
Validator in schematic is ERC and in PCB is DRC. To be clear don’t miss these terms in your questions.
Also symbol libraries are files containing many symbols inside but footprint libraries are directories and each footprint is a separate file. So it is easy to copy footprints if needed. I am using only my libraries and symbols I define myself, but if I need new footprint I copy (seeing only names) some from KiCad libraries to my library where I then can see them (I don’t see KiCad libraries in KiCad) and select the best one to be used as a starting point for my footprint.
I have answered it (Windows) only twice. One for symbol libraries and one for footprint libraries.
I don’t know the company but there can be sometimes different motivation behind it.
We are small company (4 employees). We offer access control system. As Wiegand communication standard gives you absolutely 0 security in 90s we decided to use RS485. We developed our own encrypted communication protocol. Typical systems use 12V supply, but some use 24V so I decided our devices will be supplied with 10…28V. DCDC is not welcome in RFID reader so I linearly stabilize 3V3 from up to 28V. I could make such decision thanks to our RS485 consumes zero, zero nothing (one 1 ms frame send per 4s). Huge companies developed their RS485 protocol as a standard. We didn’t used it as its use means about 100 times greater current consumption by RS485. Having always cared about the Earth, I hate being forced to increase 100 times my energy consumption for something (in each working installation).
Will you blame me trying to lock customers?
You are correct.
In 1997 we bought Protel 3 - commercial PCB design program. In 2017 I decided KiCad (4.0.7) is already comparable (in some aspects better in some worse) and decided to move to KiCad. The capabilities of KiCad V8 are much greater than those of V4.
Yes - I see it’s that kind of UI now, have to select the right tool. I went back to it, thinking I had the Add Symbol on and, I guess out of instinct, hit ESC, and it went to where I could select it. I get it - just getting used to the interface. Not being critical, but it just seems I expected the program to “think” differently than it does. Once I get used to everything, I’ll be okay.
Yes - exactly!
Thank you for clarifying - getting the terms right is important for accuracy.
I get that.
In this case, I’m talking about 4" vent fans. With no controller connected, they go to full speed when turned on, which is good thinking, since it means if the controller breaks, the fan will still work at some level. They use USB-C cables to connect the fans to the controllers and use PWM for speed control. Their use of the USB cables is “normal.” They use the +10V line (sometimes it’s +5V, but I’ve seen diagrams labelling it as either), GND, and D+, so they’re sticking with the USB-C standard. I did a fair amount of searching and there are multiple places where people have set up something like an ESP32 to control the fan with PWM. So the interface, through the cable, is pretty straight forward, once it’s reverse engineered - and a lot of people have done it. I don’t have the skill to do it at this point. Also, the included controller, which is just a cheap speed control with 10 speeds, doesn’t connect with anything. But they have complete systems that include temperature and humidity monitoring equipment. Their system can turn the fan on and control the speed remotely based on time, temp, and humidity and it can be multiple fans.
There’s a lot of home automation protocols, like Zigbee, Z-Wave, even just wifi (and others like Matter and Thread now), but they use their own wireless system that doesn’t interact with anything. I called and talked to a tech and he actually got hostile when I asked about using another speed controller. The AC power cords are wired in, rather than having a socket on the device. While that might be a cost saving move, and it might be about a small company, since the system is wireless, it would have probably been a lot easier to use a standard protocol where all the programming and libraries are out there than their own system
I do find it interesting that a lot of people are controlling these fans with PWM. I did find multiple hits on how to do that, but only one thread, on one forum, had an in depth conversation and schematics or breadboard layouts (as I mentioned, done in Fritzing) that gave me enough to get a good start. I built up my design one part at a time, first just using a simple PWM circuit from the ESP32, with the ESP32 powered by a USB cable and I wired it directly to the fan terminals. Once I got that working, I used a USB-C breakout connector to connect to the lines on the USB cable. Got that working, then tapped the +10V from the fan and ran the ESP32 off that, so it only needed to be plugged into the fan and didn’t need a separate power supply. Then I added a voltage regulator, so the ESP32 wouldn’t be getting too hoat and, like you, to use less power and not just waste it. Once all that was done, I replicated the control circuit using different GPIO pins on the ESP32 so now it can control up to 4 fans. I’m working now on a fail-safe circuit so if the ESP32 blows, the fans will not turn on automatically. When that’s done, I’ll do the PCB and etch it on my CNC. This one project is a major learning experience for me - learning how to put circuits together and do a little bit of design on my own, and now I’m learning how to use software to make schematics (instead of drawing them on whiteboards) and to make a PCB, which I’ll learn how to etch on my CNC.
When I finally went to battery powered tools (like drills and hand saws), I noticed the contractors who did work on my house and a few properties I was managing all used one brand of tools, so I went with that brand and ever regretted it. I figured if the pros liked it and found it reliable, it would work for me. It’s the same thing here - the people who have been helping me, and drawing quick schematics to show me examples, are using KiCad. I also figured if they could use it and put together a diagram quickly for a Reddit or forum post, that it must be easy to use. So now I’m here.
As far as possible forum discussions should be limited to KiCad. I don’t know if in English “Hit the table and the scissors will call you” has the same meaning than in my language but it was the reason I decided to write few sentences when you said about company trying to lock everyone into their system. I think I limited my statement to the minimum that would not allow me to lose the point.
If you want to discuss electronic (like PWM control) you should go with this to the electronic forums like EEVblog.
