Hi.
I just about cracked the PCB modules in V5.0.0 and V5.0.2 is very similar, but now the schematic libraries are confusing me.
I want change a symbol (BF199 or any NPN) to BFY90 which has TO72-4 case. I can do all that but there is no apparent way to export or save the result except as a BF199, and the message I get is that I do not have permission to write to this library. The option to save an existing symbol as a new device seems to have vanished. As many of my symbols are semi-custom it is a problem for me.
I cannot see any way to create a new symbol then import one to edit. I can create a blank symbol but that is all.
The manual describes the V5.0.0 method in detail, but not the V5.0.2 where to tool bar appears to be very different.
Can anyone enlighten me please?
- If not already done, create a (personal) lib in a directory you have enough privileges to write in.
- Copy the symbol you want to alter (contextual menu)
- Paste it in your lib (contextual menu)
- Edit this copy
A bit more detailed response to what you got by @Efcis can be found in any tutorial. One such tutorial is found in the forum FAQ: Tutorial: How to make a symbol (KiCad v5.1.x)
It might be nitpicking to some, but please try to give the correct version numbers for KiCad.
V5.02 does not exist, V5.0.2 does.
Within a few weeks V5.1 is expected, and maybe someday there will be a V5.2.
Around that time the difference between V5.2 and V5.02 will be very confusing for people reading old posts.
No, 5.1.x will be the final version 5 series. Version 6 development will start as soon as 5.1.0 is released.
Hi Paulvdh, Sorry hands smacked! V5.0.0 & V5.0.2 it is.
Rene_Poschl:
“A bit more detailed response to what you got by @Efcis can be found in any tutorial. One such tutorial is found in the forum FAQ: Tutorial: How to make a symbol.”
I have done this many times in earlier versions which I have been using since about 2010. However unless I have a bad installation of the new version, the tutorials do not seem to apply to the newest release V5.0.2.
My main issue is the difference between the V5.0.0 GUI and the V5.0.2 in schematic symbol library change of the menu strip:
KiCad5-02.pdf (215.4 KB) The top is taken from the manual and is similar to windows 5.0.0 verfsions whilst the lower shot is from V5.0.2.
Is it possible to copy and re-use an existing symbol, as in the earlier V5.0.0 direct from the symbol editor?
Ecfis:
“•If not already done, create a (personal) lib in a directory you have enough privileges to write in.
•Copy the symbol you want to alter (contextual menu)
•Paste it in your lib (contextual menu)
•Edit this copy”
Thanks for the help but I tried this. Only the first entry in any library gets copied. Individual symbols do not seem to be available to copy.
Has the documentation been updated anywhere to cover the change of the symbol library use?
For now I am reverting to V 5.0.0 as I have to get a PCB done, but I would like to use the newer version if I can get to grips with its new idiosyncrasies.
Any help would be appreciated.
The top screenshot is definitely not from any version 5 release. This is the version 4.0.x series! (If this is from the documentation then this means the documentation is out of date.)
The short answer to how to copy a symbol is: right click on a symbol name in the tree-view to the left. This might give you already everything you need to know. (Again for more details read the FAQ tutorial i posted above. It is up to date. And even covers some features that will be added in 5.1.x)
@dangerous: Would you be so kind then to edit the title of this post and your original post to reflect V5.0.2 ( You’re not the only one, there are 10+ trhreds about V5.02)
@rene: Some days ago you suggested a 2 year life span before the release of KiCad V6.0 I believe you if you say there are no current plans for a KiCad V6.2, but I would not be surprised if some of the V6 features get back ported and a KiCad V5.2 will be made some day in the future. Combine that with the speed KiCad is evolving and (old) threads can become really confusing when applied to the wrong KiCad version.
@paulvdh : Done that. Did not realize I could edit the title.
@rene : You are right about the menu bar as I now recall that the version I was using at work was 4.0.7 and that is the one I have no problems with symbol copy etc. I will revert to 4.0.7 for now and experiment with the newer release when I have time to learn the methods properly.
That top picture is the one in the manual that comes with V5.0.x. and so must be out of date and is the same in the documentation on the website for Eschema.
I will try again with your FAQ.
It just does not seem very intuitive any more compared with V4.0.7
Thanks for the help.
You want to tell me that copying symbols with the old workflow was intuitive?
You needed to set libraries as active in the correct, save the component to the lib and then not forget to save the lib to disk.
Now you use the treeview in the left side like you would your file browser. right click on the name of the symbol you want to copy -> copy. right click on the library you want your new symbol to be in -> paste.
And if you want to copy just part of a symbol then simply open the source symbol (double click on symbol name in the treeview.) use the block selection (drag with left mousebutton pressed.) crtl+c Open the target symbol crtl+v (compared to the old right-click save selection, top toolbar only paste)
And kicad nightly even has save as functionality which makes this all even more like any normal program.
I figured out the [RMB] & copy & paste some time ago, without reading a manual, but it needs some preparation, because it needs of course a library to write to and all the defalt libraries are (rightly so) read-only.
This was the same in version 4. So i am still at a loss what you find easier to do with that version. (V5 even conveniently adds your newly created library to the lib tables instead of popping up an info that the new lib will only be available after you add it to the project as version 4 did it.)
Is it possible you confuse “intuitive” with “i was used to it”?
OP never claimed in this post that the “old way” was intuitive or easy.
I only see:
Edit: And as noted before and after this post, what OP refers to as V5.0.0 screenschots are actually from KiCad V4.x.
5.0.0 and 5.0.2 are equal in function! What op links as 5.0.0 is what version 4 was.
And on the symbol side there is not even a change with current nightly (will be 5.1 shortly)
Thanks everyone. Maybe I should add that I am running V 5.0.2 on Windows 7 Professional X64 but I doubt that the O/S is a major issue.
My statement error was re V4.07 and V5.0.x menu bar, however the manual for V5.0.2 does still show the V4.0.x in the symbol library section. It also shows some items from the V5.0.x but certain ones are missing from the actual program, for example the “load component to edit” and “make new component from existing” tabs. As a non-programmer I have no idea why it has had to change, and I cannot possibly challenge the right to move forward but I am really struggling to get the idea of the Symbol editor in the V5.0.x issue.
@Rene_Poschl You maybe right,
Blockquote
Is it possible you confuse “intuitive” with “i was used to it”?
But what took a few clicks in the previous version now seems to take forever, requires a new, unrelated library, with no connection to the existing library files, and then seems very difficult to copy symbols for editing.
For example in V4.0.7, in the symbol editor, load symbol mode, I selected audio as the library, first item LL1589, a 2 primary 1 secondary transformer. 3 clicks so far. I simply added an extra pin to the secondary as a centre tap. 1 more click and some pin editing. Now Click “create new component from current one” (5 clicks and a few mouse strokes so far) Enter the new component name and then either save library (same library different component name) or open new or custom library to save to.
Making the above changes took about five minutes from start to finish, which is fine, and similar to the process for footprint editing. It was of course possible to end up saving the items in the wrong place or overwriting the original, but was quick and simple.
Point 1. The new KK libraries cannot be written to so I have to make my own custom library, which I then also have to add using the library manager.
Point 2. I can then select the LL1589 from the transformer library (it has moved) and see it on screen.
I can then export it according to the right click on the mouse, but every time I look the destination folder appears empty. If I try to export the whole folder I only get the first item in it and a message telling me that it already exists. No help at all! And very, very frustrating.
I am quite sure that there must be very good reasons programmatically for making the changes, but without comprehensive instructions or examples to follow, the change to the newer version is so dramatic as to be almost impossible fro symbol copy & edit. To my mind it seems to have added many extra layers of work (& time) to what was a relatively simple, quick and with care easy process.
@Rene_Poschl Your FAQ is great as a guide to creating a new symbol, but my usual requirement is to adapt something that already exists (like the example transformer) by copying and saving the edited item.
The copy existing symbol facility has gone, and I cannot fathom how to either export a symbol for editing into a new library or from the new library how to import an existing symbol for editing.
The manual is definitely no help here, the one with the program or the one on the website under the docs tab as both seem to describe the V4.0.x method.
Is there a simple video or walk-through to do exactly the same thing in V5.0.x as was possible in V4.0.7 as described above?
The only alternative seems to be to create all my own new symbols for anything not supplied and waste a lot of effort in the process.
I do not understand how this mis-communication started, nor why it persists.
In KiCad V5.0.2 I would:
1). Open the Symbol Library Editor.
2). Type “bf199” in the search box.
3). Right click & Copy.
4). Empty the text in the Search box, so all libraries become visible again.
5). Right Click & Paste into a writable library.
6). Select your copied symbol in the new (writable !) library.
7). Hover over the component name in the graphical editor window (Not in the Tree ! ) and press “e”(dit) to edit:
8). I now have a BF19999 in my personal library.
Note:
It would seem logical to be able to edit the component name directly in the tree with a right cklick or [F2] But I can’t seem to get that to work. Edit: Apparently this has very recently already been fixed for KiCad V5.1 
https://forum.kicad.info/t/kicad-5-duplicate-component-and-save-as-new-name/14229/6
One should never save to a system library. This is true for v5 as it was in v4. There is no change in behavior here!
Are you sure you counted correct? You analyze copying the symbol into the same lib, lets to the same in v5:
Opening a symbol takes less distinct clicks (No need to set the library as active first.) Simply double click on the symbol name. (previously: click on select active library, search your lib in the list, double click on that. Followed by open symbol from library, search symbol in there, double click. I count 6 clicks here already. Compared to the one needed in v5. I think there was a way to save one click but would still be 5 clicks just to open the source symbol.)
The live filter on top of the treeview also increases efficiency here further. (In the old system you needed to filter twice, first for library name to select it as active and then for the symbol name to find that faster. Now you only filter for the symbol name.)
The copy task in v5 also takes only two clicks (for same lib, 4 for copy into any library. Reason copy/paste instead of duplicate).
Right click on symbol in the tree view, -> duplicate (you don’t even need to open it first! But lets assume you have been unsure which symbol to copy and decided to first open it for that reason. Meaning if you are certain then you save yourself the whole double click listed above.)
Now you will need to open the new symbol to edit it (So one double click here)
To change the name use the symbol properties dialog or edit the value field directly (either a hotkey action followed by entering the name and enter or one click plus entering name and at most another click)
Saving the change is now also at most one click or a hotkey (crtl+s like in any other program)
In summary: In v5 you need 2 clicks for duplicating plus 1 double click for opening the new symbol, at most 2 clicks to change the name and 1 further click for saving (The later two options can be mostly done with hotkeys)
This is less than even your overly optimistic number of clicks for v4.
And this will become even easier in v5.1 as that one now has a save as option. I assume it will work as follows: open symbol, edit -> save as, select lib, select new name, done (I have no access to kicad right now so i am working from memory here.)
I think I have a good solution to lessening the amount of mouse clicks.
How about this workflow:
1). In Eeschema you put one of the many symbols from the default libraries on the canvas.
2). [Ctrl + E] to edit the symbol.
KiCad now opens the Symbol LIbrary Editor, but it opens it with the readonly symbol from the default libraries.
If it opened the Symbol Library Editor with the Cached symbol from Eeschema It would open it in a writable fashion.
In KiCad V4 there also was a button in the Symbol Library Editor to directly update one, or all similar symbols directly in Eeschema, there was no need to put symbols in other libraries, or even to save a library.
Manually copying readonly symbols from the default libraries to a new library should not be needed in this case. Kicad should be smart enough that if you want to edit a read-only symbol which also has a copy in the project-cache to edit symbol from the project-cache library.
The cache lib is already a hack. Do not add a hack to a hack. Really where is the problem to properly manage libs? It requires a few minutes of work (as soon as one knows what one is doing) and simply adds so much value to your projects in the long term.
(To be honest i am already not really a fan of the fact that one can even have project specific changes to footprints that are only saved inside the pcb file. Yes it is a feature that can be used for good reasons in very rare cases. But in most cases a proper project specific footprint inside a project specific lib would be the far better solution. I would say the same applies to the symbol side.)
@paulvdh Thank you for the wonderful walk-through.
If only my version worked like that we would not be having this conversation.
Referring to your picture sequence and comments, 1,2 & 3 are fine and do exactly what you say.
When I get to 4 it is not possible to select a library after copying the symbol as that tree is not visible. If I click on the + sign near Transistor_BJT it changes to - but that is all.
The target folder (new_library) exists, as it can be seen in the symbol viewer and is in the symbol library manager on the bottom line, but there appears to be no way back to the tree once a symbol is loaded. This is why I am struggling!
Is it a non compatibility with windows perhaps?
Hopefully the pdf attached will show what I mean
KK pix.pdf (569.7 KB)
Maybe I am not pressing an appropriate button or selecting something, but I cannot see anyway at all to re-open the library tree after copying the symbol, and this seems to be the same in every version of 5.0.x on my systems, and I have tried it on 2 PCs at work and 1 at home, and a laptop, all running windows7 pro 64 bit.
Thanks for your patience in this matter, and I feel not only frustrated but also quite stupid as it should be very simple according to your write up.
Thanks once more for your help, but can you suggest why the tree is not accessible?