I started a multi-page schematic with KiCad set to English user Interface.
After editing only a sub-sheet (the topmost sheet “foobar.kicad_sch” file didn’t change) while KiCad was set to German user Interface, the kicad_pro file changed the first sheet’s name in the “sheets” section from “Root” to “Stammblatt”. Is this the intended behavior or should I file an issue?
I didn’t expect localized names in kicad_pro. I didn’t even expect “generated” names “Root” or “Stammblatt” for the root sheet since the sub-sheets are listed with their filenames there.
While this doesn’t seem to affect the function, it causes an unexpected change of a versioned file.
That’s quite annoying “feature”, really a bug. Please file an issue. I think most of the users – or developers! – never experience this because they, even in teams, use KiCad in one language only.
After filing an issue after a discussion it’s always good to add a link to it here.
It is very common that developers, even as international as kicad developers, do not understand internationalisation. But even if they do, there is nothing you can really do to make it work well. For this reason you can not even use internationalised version of software, especially if you come from a smaller language groups, even if you wanted to. It is almost certainly harmful for you to use a internationalized version.
Simply you can’t just take all the text and just translate it, it does not work. But bigger problem than that there is always going to be bugs in the internationalised part of the code, after all its the less used path. Frankly i dont know why people bother.
No i mean internationalization as an idea. There is rarely any point in it. Problems include:
Makes it impossible to search for help. Most of internet is in English. So for many languages the usage base is so tiny that your dooming yourself to a slower learning path.
There is nothing the software internationalisation team can do about this either. It is made worse that most likely any person with any expertise is using the English version anyway. Thus even your same language peers can not help you at all
there is a assumption that symbols have no translation issues. But they do. The classical example here is the check mark symbol. Which in several examples means exactly the opposite in some cultures. (yes in for example in a Finnish schools you atleast used to get a checkmark meaning your task is wrong and % when you are right, but this is not the only exception to the rule).
Ok so the color fixes this, well not quite red and green is not universally the same thing in all cultures.
Should the internationalisation effort change the icons?
Keyboard shortcuts of more exotic keys are often impossible in some language groups because they are not in the keyboard, or made such that even if it is on the keyboard you can not type it without modifiers. Making them impossible to use.
Should the internatinalisation layer fix this?
Gets done badly because there is a tacit assumption that concepts can be translated 1:1. They can not. It is entirely possible to have a situation where in English one 6 letter word suffices but in target language you suddenly need a full sentence in 38 letters because entire concept is missing. This makes the accessibility of the translation really bad.
The classical example here is the order at which concepts are presented in the menus. Languages extends ti groups of concepts too. Simply the most useful order to things may change in languages. So should the internationalisation layer allow changing of location of buttons and icons?
The other classical example is the concept of a persons Name. The concept in Africa is way different than in western countries and causes a lot of problems.
Something is better than nothing? Well not necceserily, a partial translation is often much worse than not translation at all.
So the end run is that i am forced to learn English anyway. Since without knowing cultural clues i cant understand the details anyway. Once English is no longer lingua franca then whatever is at that point you need to learn whatever is the language used.
There are bugs in KiCad, why bother using it?
There are bugs in everything. Its not about bugs its about how you communicate about bugs, here and in your bug database.
It sounds like you should probably just use KiCad in English, but I think a lot of our users disagree with your points here and value that KiCad is available with translations (when many other programs are not).
No, it should not – at least not in KiCad, where the “internationalization layer” is just a string translation layer. Keyboard layout differences are a separate problem that has to be solved separately. Right now KiCad doesn’t have a good solution for this, but the solution we think would be good is an easier way to install keymaps (and then you could download a keymap for your keyboard layout from the PCM, for example). The only thing missing is someone with the time and motivation to implement this.
If someone wants to, I guess it could! It is already possible to swap out the icons if you don’t like the ones KiCad comes with.
No, a KiCad developer can answer this question. No it should not, it is a bug. Built-in names (ones the user can’t change) should never be saved to files in translated form. It causes VCS churn as well as potentially other issues.
checkmark meaning your task is wrong and % when you are right, but this is not the only exception to the rule).