I still think there’s one more “OK” window displayed in a modal way (effectively locking everything elese) but for some reason it’s buried under other UI elements. The question remains, how to reach it…
Hello,
I’m having the exact same problem described in the original post. Windows 10, 2 monitors, Kicad starts fine, runs for a bit, then if you open a property window or 3d view (possibly other triggers as well), it stops responding to user input. It does not seem to have crashed or locked up, but there is nothing to do but kill the task in Task Manager. I’ve tried disabling a few unnecessary services and it changes nothing. I’ve tried the Win+Tab suggestion as well as the Alt+Space suggestion, as I also thought it had some window that had popped under something, but neither has worked, and I haven’t found any evidence of such a window yet. I’ll give it a bit more of an inspection soon. This is a work computer, so I do not know it as well as my personal computers. I can answer any questions I am asked, but it will take time if I’m not at work.
I suppose the sentry crash reporter never gets fired as it never crashes, it just gets terminated by the user. If anyone believes it could still be reporting in response to having its process terminated, I’ll happily terminate it a few times after the problem occurs and provide the anonymous ID number.
I’ve copied all the KiCAD information as well as Windows/PC/GPU settings. Here they are:
Application: KiCad x64 on x64
Version: 8.0.3, release build
Libraries:
wxWidgets 3.2.4
FreeType 2.12.1
HarfBuzz 8.3.0
FontConfig 2.14.2
libcurl/8.5.0-DEV Schannel zlib/1.3
Platform: Windows 10 (build 19045), 64-bit edition, 64 bit, Little endian, wxMSW
Build Info:
Date: Jun 3 2024 19:04:47
wxWidgets: 3.2.4 (wchar_t,wx containers)
Boost: 1.83.0
OCC: 7.8.1
Curl: 8.5.0-DEV
ngspice: 42
Compiler: Visual C++ 1939 without C++ ABI
Build settings:
PC info:
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.41 GHz
Physical RAM 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
Architecture 64bit operating system, x64 based processor
windows version info:
Edition Windows 10 Pro
Version 22H2
Installed 2021/01/22
OS Build 19045.4651
Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.19060.1000.0
Graphics:
Nvidia GT 730
Intel HD 530
I know those graphics processors are terrible, again, not my computer. I just have to suffer through its use.
Any help or questions to help me help you would be appreciated.
Dual GPUs again
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/dual-gpu-make-my-win10-very-unstable/fdf2e141-0912-458a-bec3-347f38d876c2
davidsrsb: Thank you for your link. However I am doubtful that the situation of BaoRichard is similar enough to my situation to apply. Here is my reasoning.
My “second GPU” (actually it’s the primary video chipset) is not a dedicated graphics card, it’s the built-in 2D/3D graphics chipset on the motherboard. In that sense almost 100% of people using a 3D accelerated GPU such as an Nvidia or AMD graphics card will also have the built-in graphics chipset with varying amount of 3D accelerating power. BaoRichard from your link has 2 identical Nvidia GPUs which are of the overclocked variety (almost certainly bringing his GPU count to 3 including his built-in graphics chipset). Also, I have 0 trouble with any other software, especially Windows, which is what BaoRichard was complaining about. I cannot say 100% this is not the cause of the trouble with KiCAD, but the reasoning is weak: one person had trouble with 2 GPUs, so anyone else having trouble while having 2 GPUs must be having the same trouble. My windows is fine, only KiCAD is struggling.
I cannot take the computer apart and start testing RAM sticks and their inserted order or updating the BIOS 4 times as it is a work computer, but if you have any other ideas, I’d be happy to read the links or try some things and report back.
fred4u: Do you have any ideas of what that suspected modal window might be for? On a separate work computer that is a laptop and uses only one GPU and monitor, I do not have the same problem, but I do not see any windows that pop up requiring a click on OK or Cancel or any other options under the same circumstances. I can load the exact same project on both computers and follow the exact same steps and clicks, and the troubled computer will encounter the issue while the non-troubled computer shows no signs of any windows requiring clicks. If you have a sneaking suspicion of which window might be causing the issue I can test it on both computers and see if we can narrow down reproducibility beyond opening the 3D viewer or a footprint properties window. Are there any error windows that pop up in KiCAD? I don’t believe I have encountered any in the past.
Is the Nvidia driver the latest available from Nvidia (not Microsoft)? Check Download The Latest Official GeForce Drivers I put in your model and it seems the latest is:
Driver Version: 475.14 - WHQL
Release Date: Tue Jul 09, 2024
Operating System: Windows 10 64-bit,
Windows 11
Language: English (US)
File Size: 740.75 MB
Similarly check the Intel driver.
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retiredfeline: Thank you for your suggestion. I have updated both graphics drivers and so far while doing my best to make it freeze, it has continued to operate. There was a moment during a DRC that KiCAD stopped responding for a moment, but it looked like a regular windows hang, and when I told windows to wait for the program to respond, it did shortly thereafter start working again. I will continue to monitor the situation and will come back if things continue to not work, but I am hopeful this was a driver situation. I never suspect drivers when there’s a problem, but I’ll try to keep it in mind for the future. Thank you for your help.
Oh, and by the way, in my situation, I was able to install the official Nvidia drivers, but the official Intel HD 530 driver refused to install no matter what I would try; exe, zip with manual driver update search, etc. I eventually found a support page that suggested an autodetect driver update app from Intel, and that application subsequently told me to download the HP driver (as this is an HP computer). Apparently HP changes something in the chipset and standard Intel drivers will not work. If anyone has a similar problem, update your drivers. If you have trouble updating, keep looking for the right driver.
Finally, @davidsrsb I discovered a lot more about the display hardware on this computer while updating the drivers. There is indeed a second Nvidia GPU, bringing the count to 3 physical graphics adapters AND a remote admin virtual display adapter to boot. I apologize for dismissing your theory. I have never seen a computer built this way by a major PC builder (HP), and windows did not make it immediately obvious that there were two adapters with the same name. I’m sorry. If I were more familiar with this computer I would not have dismissed your idea so quickly.
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Yesterday, my coworker had another freeze on our troubled work computer while pressing “e” to pull up the properties window for the edge cut rectangle he was using to define the shape of the board he was working on. This was on version 8.0.3. He was only doing simple edits prior to the freeze on the rectangle properties window. He’s a beginner, so he was mostly just moving footprints around, then wanted to change the size of his board a bit. I don’t think there were many traces on the board yet.
Today we saw there is an update to 8.0.4. We immediately updated. I cannot say whether or not 8.0.4 continues to have the same issues, yet. However I felt it might be important to point out that despite the video driver updates, the problem persists even though it seems to occur less often.
We’ll try out the new version (8.0.4) and return if things continue to freeze. At that point I will type up a very detailed list of the hardware (and software in use) in that PC, and if anyone else has similar trouble, maybe we can figure out which components match up or not. Since reproducibility is difficult on this issue, I guess that’s a good place to begin? Any thoughts?
I have a bit more information regarding these freeze ups. The computer in question is currently being used, so I cannot send a complete list of hardware and software now, but I can confirm that 8.0.4 still has (more or less) the same problem, but the nature has changed somewhat.
We’re still experiencing fewer freezes on preference windows, but the 3D pcb viewer will generally cause a freeze every time, but only if the mouse moves to the second monitor where the 3D viewer window is open. If you open the 3D viewer and never move the mouse to the second monitor, it will not freeze on its own. Then after a freeze has occurred, we can now hover the mouse over the program icon that is open on the windows start menu bar (windows 10) and when the preview of the open application windows then pops up with the option for clicking on the Xs and closing each window shows up, we can actually close the windows from the start bar. We do not have to open task manager to kill the processes now (this stopped working in the last few days). However we must still close each window (usually 3-4 of them, the KiCAD project menu window, schematic editor, pcb editor, and/or 3d pcb viewer) or it will remain frozen. Only full closures of KiCAD and a fresh reopening will recover from the issue.
Same happend here, every time I try to input something in input box, KiCad freezed. I use 8.99 nightly build.
That is not the same, it’s different code and a different build and is not even a release candidate.
It happen when I use 8.0.3, this why I try 8.99 nightly.
This whole thread sounds like the IME bug we will never fix because it’s an issue with Windows.
If you have a language enabled that will use the IME editor (using CJK), you can cause the IME to open in a race condition with our hotkey handler. The result is the IME does not open when Windows thinks it should and the application gets “locked up” because Windows stole the part of the event loop without giving it back. The only “fix” is to remove KiCad’s support for hotkeys. I also have an unholy fix but it’s inappropriate to put in code.
I believe I have found a solution for this problem. I was showing my coworker how to improve his layouts when it froze again. This time we had task manager already open on the second monitor and we noticed a field that was not normally visible when we opened the task manager after a freeze. It’s a column called GPU engine, and it had GPU 2 listed as the GPU engine for KiCAD. I right clicked on the KiCAD desktop icon, went to the option “Render OpenGL on” and in the past I’ve only ever seen the GPUs listed, but this time I noticed an option called “Choose which GPU to render OpenGL”. Out of curiosity I clicked on it. It pulled up an Nvidia license agreement. I clicked agree, the window went away, and then nothing happened. I immediately thought about how the freezes look like there’s a pop-up you can never get to, and I wondered if this license agreement is the pop-up, so I tried to run KiCAD and see what would happen. In task manager, it said that we were running KiCAD on GPU 1, and ever since we have not had a crash. We’ve been trying to crash it, and it just hasn’t happened yet.
So, what exactly fixed it? Was it simply changing to GPU 1? Was it clicking agree on the Nvidia license on that menu option I’ve never seen and that does absolutely nothing every time we’ve clicked on it since the first time? I can’t say exactly, but I suspect it’s GPU 1 that fixed it. However, that license agreement window was very strange and hasn’t come back, so it could have been that.
If you’re getting freezing try changing the OpenGL rendering GPU, and if that doesn’t do it, see if you can find that Nvidia license agreement window via the same method I found it, or some other method.
(Anyway, other attempts have resulted in minor improvements and initial periods of not crashing, so maybe it’ll crash again in the future. I’ll be back if it does.)
@marekr, that’s a good point. I had forgotten about that bug because I haven’t been affected by it in a very long time. As far as I can tell it has been fixed.
I did try changing languages in the IME while editing a text field (after the GPU setting changes above), and nothing happened. With this current freezing bug, editing text fields or shape properties tends to cause a freeze (in addition to using the 3D viewer), but judging by the lack of freezing while changing IME languages and typing, this seems like it is not the IME bug.
Nope, not fixed, I simply reduced the chances of it occuring but there are numerous ways to still trigger it if you know how. Lol
If you want to trigger it, be in the ime language, and the exact microsecond you see a window pop open, press the M key ( or any really). It will lock up the entire application.
But this kind of freeze is different from say a GPU freeze.
In a IME freeze , windows will never consider a program for “wait for program to respond”. If you freeze due to something like the gpu, spam clicking on the window should go into the " waiting for program to respond" state.
But then again, if Nvidia’s shit driver is trying to open a dialog on top of kicad, maybe that could cause the same issue. Lol
Application: KiCad x64 on x64
Version: 8.0.4, release build
Libraries:
wxWidgets 3.2.5
FreeType 2.12.1
HarfBuzz 8.3.0
FontConfig 2.14.2
libcurl/8.5.0-DEV Schannel zlib/1.3
Platform: Windows 10 (build 19045), 64-bit edition, 64 bit, Little endian, wxMSW
Build Info:
Date: Jul 17 2024 03:26:47
wxWidgets: 3.2.5 (wchar_t,wx containers)
Boost: 1.83.0
OCC: 7.8.1
Curl: 8.5.0-DEV
ngspice: 42
Compiler: Visual C++ 1939 without C++ ABI
Build settings:
Well, nicely done. I haven’t seen the IME bug in quite some time in KiCAD. Maybe the last time was version 5?
BTW, on the freezing bug, my coworker claimed it froze again after changing the GPU engine, but I wasn’t there when it happened, so I can’t be sure it was after the GPU engine change or if the GPU engine went back to GPU 2, or what. I’ll try to follow up on that and come back with a more definite answer after the weekend.
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