External 3D Models for OSHW projects

Hi.
I’m recently making some OSHW projects in Kicad and I want to publish them on Github. I’m pretty sure that they will be valuable for the community as they are useful tools for development and additionally well documented.
One shortcoming of Kicad is the lack of 3D Models for many footprints. For instance normal USB A and B Connectors seem to be missing.

My first intent was to use models from Grabcad, like this one:

and upload a text file inside the folder where I give Information about the author and link to the usage terms of grabcad:

Usage Terms:
“For non-commercial public use: If you are showcasing this model or design publicly, but no money is being exchanged, then this applies to you. Please make sure to attribute the model’s original creator, and include a web link to the original model that inspired your design. Examples include sharing on social media, including in a student presentation, or uploading to a free CAD library like GrabCAD.”

However, I’m not sure if this applies to my projects. I’m guessing it is OK since I’m not embedding the step file into the project but it is linked inside the footprint. This would mean that the case that is applicable here is “…uploading to a free CAD library like GrabCAD…”.
OSHW Authors of Kicad: how do you use 3rd party models? For instance Wuerth Models are freely available but there is no license to be found for them. Thats why I’m forced to make rudimentary models for Wuerth parts myself which is a lot of work for a non-3Dcad guy like me.
Do you think I can use Grabcad models like this? Do I have to modify my license file to exclude these models because otherwise I’d apply the OSHW license to those?

Kind Regards,
M.

It’s logical that people who create such models want some kind of attribution for the effort they put into it. It’s easy to see this as a nuisance when you want to use such parts in your own (open source / hardware) project, but creating all the 3D models yourself would be Much more work.

Any project should have some sort of license or copyright statement. Quite a lot of people find this nonsense, and as a result their published work defaults to an “all rights prohibited” (probably depends on where you live) and this is probably the exact opposite of what they intended. Such people often also are blind to such arguments, and it’s no use to attempt to talk to them. It’s a big messy mudball we live on.

If you include such a license statement in your project, it’s not too much work to keep track of your sources, and put the names of the 3D models you found, combined with their source into the same text file as your license statement. I also guess that a “best effort” is good enough. If you miss to give attribution to some of the 3D models (for example lost the source yourself) then it is extremelly unlikely you will be dragged to court for it. It’s also extremely unlikely you will ever hear back from the source. The worst I can imagine that might happen is to get something like a “cease and desist” letter, and then it’s probably enough to just remove that single 3D model from your project or find a replacement for it.

KiCad has a page on their website considering licensing:

A while back (KiCad V5 to V6) all icons in KiCad were re-designed. Part of the reason was to avoid any problems around licensing of the artwork in those icons. I still find myself longing back to some of the old icons. They were designed very artfully and colorful and this made them easy to memorize and recognize. There is an extremely long thread about those icons on this user forum.

Why are you unsure about this? For me it’s simple. As soon as you make your work available to others and it includes data from grabcad, then the license applies. Even if you just put your project on a publicly accessible space such as gitlab. I guess that “legally” even making a screenshot of a 3D model would make it a “derived work”.

No, don’t exclude the models. do it the other way. Write that your own work is part of whatever license you want to put on it. but you can’t change the license of work done by others willy-nilly. So instead, just list your sources to give attribution to them, and maybe put in a statement that those parts have their own license, which is the default anyway.

KiCad’s own libraries have roots in many sources. The KLC has a separate statement for 3D models.

KiCad is also becoming more popular and widespread, and manufacturers are also becoming aware of this. Some time ago there was a thread about a connector manufacturer (It may have been Wurth / Wuerth (is that the same?)). They had interest to make their whole assortment compatible with KiCad. Probably including footprints and 3D models. But I mostly answer forum questions and did not go into details of such cooperation. But you can rely on KiCad’s library license statements. If a problem ever arises, and your own behavior was in line with that license, then problems around it will probably on KiCad’s neck, and not yours.

Edit: Muy confusion, the wurth thread was about 3D models for inductors

but I’m not a lawyer, and all this may be nonsense or fantasy.
There, I’ve covered myself.

Because the person who made the thing can decide what their models are worth

Wuerth parts myself which is a lot of work for a non-3Dcad guy like me.

Well, there you have it its not a trivial skill, so its just right that the maker can say what license they should have.

Sometimes free is more expensive than paid for. Me i would just remodel the thing.

I’m not an attorney however, I have US-Patent’s on some electrical Connectors and a Military Bayonet/Knife and have worked with Patent attorney’s as well as studying US-Patent laws related to my gizmo’s.

That said, I offer my comments’s:
• Patents are not universally applied - they are by Country but, can be International Patents if applied for.
• Always best to give attribution to the sourced/referenced product
• You can Modify/Improve most any design without having to Patent it but, best to give attribution’s as appropriate if producing/selling it…
• Even if your gizmo is not related to a Patented/Copyrighted design/publication, someone incorrectly thinking it is can take you to court and tie-up sales and cost you lot’s of money and time, even if they abandon the complaint.

Example: I have also written/published Software and Android App’s and was contacted once by someone claiming I stole his idea. His complaint went nowhere because I did not use any of his concepts beyond obvious related ‘words’ in a practical sense.

The Cub-Scouts of America recognized that (my App) and offered me handfuls of money to re-brand my Knot-tying App for them (I had already sold well over 100k for 99cents and I didn’t want to bother with them…) Eventually, I took it off the market to get Google to stop hassling me to update it for new Android phones.

For reference, here’s a snippet of one of my Patents. Notice the Reference Cited patents…

1 Like

Thank you for all the answers. They are quite contrary in nature. Please remember that this question is just for OSHW projects, there is no money to be made and no patents are to be filed.
Lets say in case of a simple generic USB B Connector 3D Model, which is not included in the Kicad Files.
Not an option:

  • Making a detailed Model myself. I simply can’t.
  • Buying or licensing a model. I won’t, since this project is a hobbyist non-profit OSHW project.
  • Taking a model where no usage terms are available like those from Wurth (Würth). Unfortunately this also leads me to avoid such special single source parts, at least for OSHW projects.

What would you vote for?

  1. Getting a Model from Grabcad like this one, bundling with a Text Note citing the Source and the Author and linking the usage terms from Grabcad, which are somehow a little unclear but at least they allow some non-profit usage. I think that is what paulvdh is suggesting
  2. Respect the author strictly, do not use any 3rd party models. If I can’t make them myself, my own fault. I should upload the project with any model removed that is not part of a true open source library (i think that is joojala s point).
  3. Making some dirty outline box instead of a detailed model and place it onto the footprint. Unfortunately KiCad does not bring such a feature, unlike, for instance, Altium. So I have to do some extra work in Freecad or similar. Also this might be worse than leaving it empty with my limited skills…
  4. Getting a model from some place else that I don’t know? There is the celestial altium library that has some models and is declared open source, but the ordinary USB B Connector is also not included…

I can’t advise exactly what to do (beyond what I already stated) if you want a full/complete model.

I tell what I do:
• I never make fully functional models unless planning on incorporating them in a product for sale/publication/other and have usually, in text/description indicated something like this:
“Non-Functional, for Graphic Representation, Only”
• Given that Kicad related models are only graphic’s and, therefore, any realism beyond the basic geometry, pins, graphics… can be minimized to ‘dirty outline’ so to speak. Depending upon what you do with it, that will determine what info you associate with it, if needed.

Examples: Look at some of mine you won’t see detail beyond those mentioned. I name them appropriately but, not fully named. Below example is the Teensy 4.0 from the link.

You can see it’s very minimal but, conveys the correct (approx) geometry and correct pins.

You may notice other similar items in the link, such as Nokia, Pico…etc

If you use a questionably legal model, try to graphically change it by covering up stuff.

I don’t worry much about it… I figure no company is going to complain unless I’m degrading their reputation or sales… and would most likely appreciate more product visibility…

ADDED: I read your link to Wurth. They want to improve the Model for possible Finite_Element_Analysis. I do FEA but create models only suffiicient for that purpose (don’t need more than what’s needed, is my approach)

Option 1. sounds good to me.
Option 3. just drawing some simple rectangular box is also just fine, and it avoids any licensing proplems.

there is another alternative:

  1. Ask someone to contribute a model for you.

So what exactpart are you looking at?

Here is one, it is only approximate but probably good enough for you. MIT license ok?

wr_usb2_hz_tht.stp (157.9 KB)

its approximately the component WR-COM USB 2.0 Horizontal THT

Hi joojala.
That is very nice from you. Where is it hosted, so that I can link the source with license?
Additionally, I’m missing a USB A Connector like this one, just in case you got that too. I don’t want to overuse your patience :slight_smile:

  • Where is the correct place to / What is the correct way to request a 3D Model from the KiCad Community?
  • Would’nt it be best if you contribute it to the KiCad Library?

Many Thanks!
M.

Somehow my posts have been flagged as Spam, I really don’t know why, maybe because I posted grabcad links? Can someone tell me what happened?

The system tagged them as ‘new user created multiple posts with a link to the same place’.

Where is it hosted

Here. I didnt go and find it i spent a 8-12 minutes to make it. Where do you want it to be hosted?

It was more of a example that not all of us suffer form a inability to make 3D models. Maybe, you should also look into it. Something like this is a good second level learning exercise. After maybe 2- 3 basics lessons, so about 6-12 hours of work.

Specify decent quality connectors where you can get correct 3D models and correct footprints from the manufacturer . . . nobody is going to thank you when they can’t get the obscure manufacturers connector and cannot find info on it and then use something in place that doesn’t actually fit or connect properly.