[Developer Feedback] Poll: layer manager

Oh! really I see that :yum:

I agree with this. I would like a feature where a particular combination of layer/render checkboxes can be saved so it can be recalled at any time and in any project.

I would argue against having an additional interface / dialogue to save certain combinations of on/off in the layers. From a usability perspective this adds clutter to the dialogue and of any given interface type there should only be one way of changing something. Having multiple ways causes confusion and adds to the chances of one part being overlooked and having different functionality as time progresses.

I would have thought this functionality could be easily implemented by a script and an add on to those who need it.

It’s quite common for programs to have “presets” for selecting a specific combination of settings. This could be easily added without adding any “clutter” to the interface.

As there is no possibilty of starting scripts by a menu item or user configurable button or something like this, several steps in a dialogue are required. But then I am new to KiCad and could have missed something.

Off topic: is there any decent scripting / object model description? (Don’t refer me to Google :wink: ).

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I’ve seen a couple of posts regarding python scripting, one with how to setup dialogue box type interfaces. Programming is not my forte, but this looks to be one way of implementing;

Thanks for the tip. How about object model documentation? Any pointers?

Remark: KiCad is targeted at hardware developers. Programming requirements should be kept to a minimum IMHO. Personally, I am fine with programming - to a certain level, but this need not necessarily be the case for every user, be it professional or not. Is is really productive to have to dig into python to get a basic function?

And, the other way round, it is not sufficient to turn off silkscreen, you have to turn off the reference designator rendering, too. Or the texts for the respective board side.
And, and, …

I see the pointer pointing to the colored box, so I’d click on a colored box to change the layer. I rarely ever want to change the color so for me it’s an extreme nuisance for the color selector to come up if I click on a colored square. Besides, the colored squares look like buttons - the text looks nothing like a button and the check box hides/shows the layer.

As the visuals exist, it seems like the function should open a color picker, but that’s not necessarily what it should do.
I’m in agreement that with a relatively seldom used feature it seems weird to have editing the colors at the forefront of the UI. As a one more opinion, it might make sense to use one or more interactions:

  • doubleclick on the swatch to change the color, assuming these are changed from button style elements to a plain color swatch. More information, better color understanding.
  • right click context menu anywhere on a line gives an option to change color
  • maybe have an “change color scheme” or “edit colors” spot at the bottom of the tab to open a more fully featured color editor?

This gets my vote.:heart:

I say that single-clicking the colour box should select the layer, while double-clicking it would bring up the menu to change the colour.
Oh hey, someone already mentioned this;

I would expect layer color to be configurable elsewhere instead of having it happen whenever I click this button

I have seen several full time PCB designers changing colours frequently when working on multilayer boards on Protel, Orcad and Visula. They would not have wanted to go diving off into menus to do this

I will chime in and offer that there are has been a great deal of evolution of UI for layer management over the years. I really do not see the need to go in a different direction and in fact would prefer that the methods others have refined over the years are carefully considered to be used here. Not doing so leads to user frustration when things do not work as expected. A huge problem with Kicad in its present form is lack of adherence to common UI standards. Even a simple copy and paste operation is difficult to do.

I highly recommend looking at the layer controls used in other applications such as Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop and/or Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo. These companies have invested significant time and effort to develop and refine the layer UI over many years to make them understandable and to improve workflow. I think these apps would be good roadmaps to consider to generate a fluid and comprehensible Kicad UI that is consistent with user expectations. Not only that but I think these layer managers may provide some inspiration for other things that could be managed with layers. Things like layer hierarchy, grouping layers, layer effects, etc.

Someone mentioned an “eyeball” to show a visible layer. That is a good idea and I think I recall Adobe apps use an eyeball. The checkbox is fine as well. I would recommend the user should have the ability to lock a layer and use a padlock to visualize that. I like the idea of being able to change the layer colour without having to go to a special preference pane or multiple clicks. The obvious solution discussed here is clicking the swatch would bring up a panel to change the colour.

Opacity would be another helpful option.

As for highlighting the active layer, i really do not see much of a problem with the existing arrow. Another possibility would be to highlight the entire line with say something like a blue background.

I have attached a copy of the Affinity Designer layer UI below and a shot of the Adobe CS5 Photoshop layer panel.

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Here is a shot of the Adobe panel.

If the function of that would be that the layer wouldn’t be select-able with actions - how many are there in KiCAD with it’s layer-bound tools?
If it means to lock the layer and to prohibit changes… footprints have stuff on a lot of layers and the usefulness would be limited here as well.

As a new user to kicad, I would like to emphasise steve’s point; I am a regular user of several programs (including Blender, Illustrator and InDesign) that use layers, and it would be really good to see kicad not try to reinvent the wheel, but use an appropriate mod of existing tools.

I can definitely see the point of being able to save and quickly apply arbitrary subsets of layer selections, as devbisme suggested. Again, the Adobe tools do this extensively.

I can also see the point in swapping the colour swatch to the rhs, as several people suggest.

I would like to add that given that layers are not interchangeable – they have implied properties – it would be handy to be able to show some of these properties in the layer pane as a new column. For example, indicate media type: Copper / Screen / Mask / PCB. Then perhaps be able to sort by that column to group together.

You don’t have that much screen space. Also the function is included in the layer name anyway. (And they are always grouped.)
There is also a tooltip if you hover over the layer name that gives a bit more detail.
So if someone adds this, it must be configurable.

It would a useful feature. I found just yesterday that I needed to do just this.

But, I would prioritize this lower than bugs and requirements. Better handling of stitch throughs and no crashes would be my #1 suggestions.