[Developer Feedback] Poll: layer manager

Coming from structural side of engineering I’m used to layers having typical layout to below (Rhino3D);

  • layer name
  • current/active layer indicator
  • layer visible
  • layer locked (would be useful addition for moving things but not interacting with stuff you need to see but not move - transparency?)
  • layer colour

Using the ‘click it change it’ UI behaviour

5 Likes

One of the parts of Kicad not in need of improvements.

Unable to select user dwgs layer in footprint editor on the other side…

Left click selects layer, The selector arrow is so close you hit the colour box by accident frequently.
Right click gives a colour chooser

What is the workflow there?

Personally I think I click on the layer name to select the active one, so if the color swatch/button now leads directly to selecting the color I shouldn’t be affected.

Oh and in case you’re open to suggestions - double clicking on a layer label should toggle visibility (too). I can double click faster on a large target than single clicking on that little check mark. :neutral_face:

It’s not so much a workflow, just that when you have a crapton of layers it really helps for them to have easily distinguished colors, and the color set that works for one person might not necessarily be what works for another. So I like to set up my layer colors to something that works well for me. I find it particularly important for 6+ layer boards.

Yeah, that sounds like a good thing to do.

Deriving my answer from the way it currently is:

Clicking anywhere on the layer’s line (left from color well, on color well and on layer name) switches this layer to be active, but clicking on the checkbox (obviously) changes the visibility.

To be consistent, I’d expect a left click on the color well to pop up the color chooser dialog or have a different way to toggle the visibility, i.e. no single-left-click, which would be counter-intuitive as well …

+1 from me for that idea. Maybe it would also suffice if the columns had a heading like in @dbrown2k’s post (eye or lightbulb for the visibility, color pattern for color selection, etc.), then the check boxes might remain the way they are (my guess is that it’s less modification to the code).

Seems like a good idea to me.

On the Linux variants, hitting the right target is much easier as it is in windows because the UI elements have much more spacing around them. I’ve made a few screenshots to illustrate this:

OTOH, the layer colors are more discernible on Windows since the coloured area on the color wells is bigger.

2 Likes

I think the right-click property menu is a good place to access the color chooser.

I realise that if the color chooser came up accidentally because I was trying to select a layer, that would be quite annoying, but it seems I can’t change my vote!

But it’s something you only do once, maybe a few times until you settle on a color scheme but then you’re likely to never touch it gain. I would be happy having to go through a menu from the menu bar in order to change layer colors, and quite annoyed if I kept getting a color picker popping up by accident.

Why’s everyone fixating on clicking them accidentally? It was suggested to move the color squares over to the right so they don’t get in the way, would that suffice?

The reason I say this is:

The color squares are going to have some color-related behavior, because they’re there and they have colors on them. We can’t really get rid of them, since you need some cue as to which layer matches which color. If they’re taking accidental clicks, I’d much rather solve that problem directly by moving them so they don’t get clicked unintentionally.

1 Like

In the past/present left-clicking on them selects that layer. You want to change that behavior that is where the “accidental” clicking will come in. You can already middle-click them and change the color. And I don’t think it will be very aesthetic moving them to the right.

Look, you asked for user feedback, we are giving it. If you don’t like it, don’t ask!

This is going the way of one of those “I am going to make a change, please will you all agree with me” type “feedback” requests.

That is just non-sequitur… If you say things must be that way because they are that way, there is no rational discussion to be had.

I think I will give up on this one, do whatever you like :slight_smile:

Funny considering I don’t actually plan to change this. Just trying to calibrate whether my intuition about what people expect is accurate. It could get changed in the future, but…priorities…

Sure, and I’m just discussing that feedback. Changing the behavior of a button because it gets clicked accidentally feels really misguided, so I want to know how people feel about actually stopping that button from being clicked accidentally…

Looks like I’ve been taught my lesson though, I won’t keep asking for input. Seems a number of people get rather upset when you try to have a discussion instead of just filing their feedback away for reference…

While we are at it: I strongly suggest implementing some sort of “view” mechanism that allows users to select user defined layer combinations comfortably. When you have a bunch of layers in a project it is extremly tedious and unproductive to spend one’s time clicking layers on and off. The currently implemented selections around “hide all copper layers” does not help a lot.

I feel that is even more important than the way colors are changed, provided they can be changed at all and there is a richer choice of colors.

2 Likes

I did not know that. (Really in all my time using kicad i never noticed it.)
I would also not expect this behavior to be honest. (And i bet most people don’t.)

It will take you maybe 2 clicks until you learn that the behavior has changed. The question is not how is it now but how do you think somebody without bias would expect it to work. In good GUI (re)design this is the most important question. Keeping old workflows comes at best second.

Also if the color selector is moved to the right i think it is enough of a visual clue to the user that something has changed and therefore the user experience will be better.

It will also increase the visual distance between the color selector and the “this layer is active” marker. This will further reduce the association that the color selector is responsible for changing the active layer.

That would be the wrong lesson IMHO.
You just have to expect the full spectrum of answers when you get out and ask, such is life. :head_bandage:
Get that info, do with it what you think is right and call the shots.
By probing for opinions (probably in an echo chamber :nerd:) beforehand you try to make your decisions more informed which is a good thing in my world.

1 Like

If only habits, good or bad, could be that easily changed.

Just think of it this way:
You will be inconvenienced for a bit, but everyone else gets a more logical user interface.

If this will be also new icon to click in layer. I prefer the old one.
The new one seem to more button like than little flat old one. However I’ve no problem in that 3d button like.
But the old one I can see bigger color than smaller color in new button.

Bigger rectangle of color button make more easy to distinguish the color. Especially when color is near.

You got windows 10 there, the appearance of the color button/visibility selector is OS dependent.
Scroll up to see some varieties posted by @ikletti

Oh! really I see that :yum: