Copy a old board layout into KiCAD

That has no effect, nothing appears to change.

Your impression is incorrect. In multiple places elsewhere on this board, it is stated that the best or most accurate final confirmation that the layers or traces are correct is to view them with a 3rd party tool such as Gerbv. I have not only read what you have written, I have also read through the documentation, and what others elsewhere have written as well. But before save as or export to gerber files and attempting to confirm that everything is properly in spec, I am first trying to confirm if there is anything additional needed with the traces on F.Cu

I suppose it depends on what type of thermal interface you have between the board and the heatsink. The puddles I mentioned aren’t that big and if you are using a thermal pad I would expect it to conform to the shape of the board. Thermal paste might or might not have a problem with the uneven surface. If you are relying on dry contact… Use some sort of thermal interface. I do have to say that I’m no expert with heatsink thermal interfaces, so take any advice I have with a large grain of salt and maybe contact your board manufacturer to see what they suggest.

How much more expensive, I don’t know and probably depends on your manufacturer. Since you are planning on using fairly exotic substrates, the cost difference between HASL and ENIG might just be insignificant compared to the cost of the substrate. Again, this is probably a conversation you should have with your manufacturer. (Usually manufacturers welcome these sorts of detail questions because they don’t want to provide a product that you can’t use…)

Without some serious extra expense of masking one side, I seriously doubt it. I’m not familiar with the process for ENIG, but that “Immersion Gold” part of the acronym leads me to think that the entire board is immersed in a solution that chemically deposits gold to the Nickle surfaces. I do know that HASL immerses the entire board into a vessel of liquid solder applying the solder to exposed copper on all sides of the board.

Did you click on the blue ENIG and HASL of my post? Those are links to the Wikipedia pages giving simple explanations about them.

That is to view the generated gerber files in Gerbv (stands for Gerber View). The 3D view in KiCad is a decent way of reviewing the board before outputting to gerbers. Even if you look at your board in the 3D view, it is still best practice to double check your gerbers in a program like Gerbv (or any of the many gerber viewer programs out there) to make sure that you generated the gerbers correctly. This is one of those measure twice, cut once protocols.

My best guess is that you imported the outlines of the DXF into KiCad.

I forgot to follow up on this fully… I’m not sure I would advise sanding boards. The different metal layers are all really thin and you run the risk of sanding them away. But if you really want to try, take care because solder is really soft and gummy as a metal. It would have at least as much tendency to clog up your sand paper as copper. Maybe wet sanding? (I’ve never tried sanding boards, so I really don’t have any practical experience. Just a gut feeling.)

Still trying to figure out what is going on with the F.Cu traces. I cannot find any way to get them to appear as anything other than outlines. Selecting and right clicking gives me no usable option. “Fill zone” doesn’t do anything, and I don’t see any options to “convert to zone”, or to convert anything to anything else. Upon opening the 3D view, an error pops up saying “board edges not detected”, even though the board outline is properly drawn on the Edge.Cuts layer. The only thing that appears to be displaying properly there are vias and anular rings. The traces on F.Cu and the unetched groundplane on B.Cu only display at a very narrow range of positions as the view is changed, and only display as a series of horizontal lines (I don’t know how else to describe it) rather than solid shapes.

Working backwards, the PDF that was converted to DXF R12 shows the shapes of the traces to be solid, just as they are in the original design file. The DXF R12 does not open in Inkscape. The DXF R12 does import into two other graphic design programs (but is unable to be saved by those programs as a DXF R12 and must be converted into a different file type to save), and both of them show the shapes of the traces as unfilled. One program does not allow me the option to select a fill or stroke width as it does with any other vector graphic. The other program does allow me to select a color and fill the shapes of the traces, but does not allow me to save the result as a DXF R12. In both programs, the DXF R12 opens with both of the extra rectangles (mentioned earlier), demonstrating that they were somehow being added by Inkscape and not KiCAD.

This appears to be the case, that Inkscape removed the fill. But yet there doesn’t appear to be a way to ensure that Inkscape saves the fill, the saved DXF R12 will not reopen or import in Inkscape, and multiple others have stated that a DXF R12 saved with Inkscape will import successfully into KiCAD. I think something is wrong somewhere, but no not know enough of what is supposed to be happening to be able to determine what it is.

I don’t want this to drag the thread off topic here, but I have only given passing thought to this so far, it is a problem to be solved at a later stage of the project. On one of the boards, the dissipation is small and is not a concern. But one board will be required to dissipate a very significant amount of heat. Flatness of the groundplane side of the board, a copper heat block between the board and the heatsink, and the heatsink itself will all be important to maximizing thermal transfer. So sanding will be required for all of these surfaces, it will just have to be done very carefully on the board itself, as you said, the metal there is soft and there isn’t much of it. If done carefully, you’ll know well in advance when the high spots are mostly knocked down and you’re getting close to the copper, it should be pretty easily possible to get it flat for all practical purposes and not hit the copper at all.

To my knowledge, it is generally not considered wise to use thermal compound with large thicknesses to fill gaps, it is a better approach to remove or minimize the gaps and have flat surfaces. There is also the potential issue to be considered of dissimilar metal interaction between the copper block and the aluminum heatsink, and I have not yet investigated what would minimize any interaction and allow efficient heat transfer at the same time. Otherwise, the heatsink will be conservatively oversized, as will the forced air cooling system. The duty cycle will be low, even in prolonged periods of continuous operation, so I don’t expect it to run much beyond warm in the worst case. This will of course be monitored closely in operational testing, and the cooling system modified accordingly if necessary. I expect that the biggest problem will be finding something to apply between the copper heat block and the heatsink to discourage dissimilar metal interaction, that will also provide efficient heat transfer, and is relatively inexpensive and readily obtained. In the US, there is a product called Nolox (if I remember the spelling correctly) which is used in house wiring on connections to the aluminum wire that was used for a period in the 1970’s, it is (or at least was, the last that I knew) readily available and inexpensive, but I do not know how efficient the heat transfer abilities are.

Almost forgot to respond to this. No, not yet, but I will, no question about that. Right now I’m concentrating on trying to make sure that everything is correct and reasy to export to or save as gerber files. As I mentioned above, something appears to be wrong somewhere, and I don’t know enough about what is supposed to be happening to be able to troubleshoot it. I’m really hoping that it can be fixed without being forced to choose between importing the traces in a raster file format (which would introduce inaccuracies) or having to redraw the traces from scratch.

“Show traces as outline” not selected:

“Show traces as outline” selected:

A picture helps a lot when having “graphical” issues

EDIT:
There is “outline mode” for vias and pads too.

I had already tried all of those options. The one for vias works, but the ones for traces and pads have no effect on anything.

Why, yes! Yes it does! Being able to post a screenshot or a file would be most helpful, but unfortunately I’m not able to do that yet!

Why do you think so?

Just copy a screenshot to your clipboard, and then paste it in between the text here.

New user are able to post only one picture per post, you could post multiple times and put a picture in each of them, moreover, I do not believe that the forum considers you a “new user” anymore, as you have been quite active, give it a try.

My bad, those options are for the tracks, vias and pads of kicad, you imported your pcb art from a DXF, you kind of have a picture at the moment, those options are not valid for that.

EDIT:
When you look at your DXF file, does it look like an outline of everything or do the tracks look like solid copper? (thick lines)

EDIT2:
Some tips for DXF->Gerber conversion
https://www.numericalinnovations.com/blogs/news/6116174-dxf-dwg-to-gerber-conversion-guidelines

Hi, I believe your script is based in python2 am I right?

Yes. I forked from https://github.com/pandysong/dxf2kicad_mod, which now has diverged a lot. There is a py3 fork but based on the old codebase https://github.com/LoopingLudwig/dxf2kicad_mod

I was wondering about pulling all the changes together sometime, but there are some utils which might be a better starting point (e.g. https://sourceforge.net/projects/dxf2pcb/ - I think KiCad can import a geda PCB?)

I described this in detail, two posts above you posting the “show traces as outline” screenshots. I also described what I had done in attempting to figure out where the problem lies. From what I can determine, the problem is somewhere between Inkscape saving the file as a DXF R12 and the importation into KiCAD, since the shapes are still properly filled upon importing a PDF into Inkscape.

It is interesting to see the perspective of this article’s argument as to why this is very much so a valid and essential workflow that is necessary to support. As for the pointers contained in the article, all of my shapes (which are the traces on the boards) are properly closed and do not self-intersect. The original design software would not allow me to fill the shapes if this was not the case, and both of the viewing modes of the software as well as the exported PDF’s verify that the shapes are properly closed and filled.

My bad! I somehow skipped two posts. :grimacing:

I am sure in v4 there was an option to import DXF as outline or filled. That option seems to have gone in v5 (and 5.99). I haven’t checked in the source code but I guess there is a line property KiCad looks at instead.

It may also be why I went for a script.

Any suggestions on where the problem might be, and how to correct it?
I seemed to have solved the Edge.Cuts problem. I discovered that two additional rectangles defining the board size had somehow gotten placed on top of the first one. Upon deleting two of them, I no longer get the Edge.Cuts error in 3D view, but the other problems remain.

Took a look at this, and I was lost on the very first line of instruction, “install python”. I know nothing about python beyond it being a programming language used in writing scripts. So to those who aren’t programmers, and have no idea how to install or use python, this is completely unusable without more detailed step by step instructions for the average person.

Given the behavior of other programs that I attempted to open and view the DXF R12 file with, it is possible that Inkscape is not saving the DXF R12 file correctly, but I have no other way to confirm this beyond what I had described above.

If you installed KiCad, you can install python almost as easily. Google, read, click, install :slight_smile:

Of course I am aware of that. That’s why we have a friendly support forum :wink:

I was banging my head trying to find this option also, I remembered that there was someting like that… it turns out it is an option of the DXF exporter

I wasn’t able to find that plot dialog that you mention in the other thread. At least in the version of KiCAD that I have, there is no export function to DXF, or any obvious apparent way to bring up that plot dialog. I did try that copy / paste method that was described there. I did work as far as being able to copy and paste from one instance of the program to another, but the pasted result is still unfilled traces that are unable to be filled.