3D models and smisioto (Step and WRL and wings) again

Layout 3D Models
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From what I gather STEP is now the primary 3D model format for footrpints, it is then used to generate the library WRL files. The STEP files are used for export to MCAD and WRL is used for the pretty 3D representation within KiCAD.

All of this is sensible and fine (although I’m not convinced about the ongoing need for wrl files, but thats another topic). However all of this http://smisioto.no-ip.org/elettronica/kicad/kicad-en.htm amazing work is now rendered worthless with respect to 3D models. Very disapointing.

I use the smisioto libraries a lot but they are only wrl and wings files, is there any way / plan to update them.

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You will need to ask the owner of that project.

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The authors email address is on the website and he was last adding models in August 2018

I used his models in 4.0.x days

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But you still can use those models, there is nothing wrong with them, only thing is that you cannot export to step for mechanical integration.

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This was anticipated as a likely answer. Given that the Smisioto libraries were a very large part of making KiCAD usable in the early days as the stock libraires were rather dire it is sad to see them being cast aside.

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Well distributing stuff on a personal website instead of a cloud connected version control system is a sure way to see ones project die a slow death.

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The author “kcs walter” does have some GitHub visibility

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Hi @dev What do you mean about the render?
I tested some that 3d files and they look ok.

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I believe they meant the original meaning of “render” i.e. “cause to be/become” and not the CS meaning of it.
Still, it’s not worthless now, just not as useful as it used to be because it’s missing step. You can still use wrl models.

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Your right not worthless but certianly getting left behind. It would be a mammoth task for the owner to create step files as it would more or less mean re-drawing all the models. It would be nice to see KiCAD absorb the project. I know it’s a huge effort and no I’m not putting myself forward so I suspect that is as far as it can go.

Thanks to Walter for the work !

And yes “render” as in to “cause to become”, nothing to do with pixels.

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Hi guys

I am the owner of the libraries you are talking about…

Just to give a bit of context, in the last few years I changed work 2 times, I got married (and divorced), moved to another house, and generally speaking had a lot of other things keeping me from managing my libraries as I wanted…

That said, I can assure you that the project is far from dead for me. In my present work I don’t get to use Kicad as much as I did before. In the past I worked for small companies where me being the only electronics engineer allowed me to use my own choice of CAD. Now I am working for a medium sized company, they have Altium, I still use Kicad for my prototypes, but it is not the main cad here…

Unfortunately, this means that I cannot follow the Kicad development as I did before. This thing about step is new to me. I can only say that from what I know of it, step is not an open file format and neither is really well defined. I work with it for mechanical projects, so I know something about it. Using a non-open file format in an open CAD, especially after pissing me off some years ago demanding to change my libraries license from CC-BY-SA to GPL (hence the dual licensing you can find in my project files), is not a good idea for me, and is certainly not consistent with an open philosophy. I don’t want to open a flame here, but this is far from the first time that I don’t concur with the developers, I stopped caring about this kind of issues for Kicad as I see there is no easy way to solve them.

Anyway, I will check out if there is a way to add step files to my libraries. Maybe I can find a way to automate a bit of the work, as I found it for the time they changed the rendering options in the past…

As for keeping my libraries on my own website, this is a personal matter. I don’t like to discuss my motivations here, but guys, let’s think about it… a lot of emails concerning my libraries were always about “can you add a way to download your libs in this other way…”. There are currently 4 different ways to download the libraries, ALL available from the same source at the same time. And there is people out there that automated the copy of my libraries to other online repos, so the libraries are actually available outside my own site. I get quite disappointed when I see people still complaining about the hosting and availability…

Well, I think I wrote quite too much, so I will leave all of you with an “have a nice and productive day”

I’ll try to stay in touch with the STEP issue.

Walter Lain

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Step is an international standard. ISO-10303. And as with wrl you are not creating a file by use of a text editor but a CAD program like freecad.

The thing is there is no feasible way to get from a tessellated file format like wrl to step as the former is missing geometry information. (Example you can not extract the center and diameter of a hole from the points in the wrl file. You can make an aproximation but that is not the point of step.)

The way from step to wrl is however always possible (removing information is much easier than getting it back)

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I think Walter is not questioning that Step is an international standard. He just says it is proprietary.

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Walter says it’s “not well defined”.

EDIT: C and C++ are ISO standards, too. Are they proprietary? Why do Open Source projects use them?

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@Rene_Poschl is right. There is no way to convert WRL to STEP so that won’t be a rescue of a project but it would be a completely new project from zero.

Hi @Walter_Lain, it was me that request you to change the material’s parameters! :wink:
(If I remember correctly previously the color information was in the Emissive and the correct place should be on Diffuse parameter)

Since I use mostly 3D Viewer to check the mechanics and don’t need CAD, I still use your models, trusting that they are with correct dimensions!
Thanks!

If you are not on CAD design and maybe would like something more “programatically” with parametric design (FreeCad, Python, CadQuery… ), you can have a check this information:


That way you can create everything without using an UI or caring about STEP (it will be the product of the work, and not the source information).

@maui could help you on this :wink:

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as @Rene_Poschl already pointed out

  1. STEP is THE standard de facto for the mechanical interchange

from Wikipedia:

  1. Like other ISO and IEC standards STEP is copyright by ISO and is not freely available (it means: you need to buy a copy)
  2. However, the 10303 EXPRESS schemas are freely available, as are the recommended practices for implementers

EDIT:
some reference links
https://www.cax-if.org/cax/cax_stepLib.php
https://www.cax-if.org/cax/cax_recommPractice.php

Anyway, using a capable mechanical CAD modeler, you don’t need to learn STEP format, but simply export your models to STEP format.
FreeCAD is an open source mechanical CAD modeler powerful and highly user scriptable.

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I was not judging if step is proprietary or open format. I was putting in context Walter’s concerns were not about step being a standard.

In any case, I’m not for or against.

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I think my purpose has not been understood fully.

After the beginning, I kept my libraries growing, adding only components hand made by me for a simple reason: licensing. Specifically, my own drawings, as interpretation of the official drawings, are my own property, covered by the license I choose, and my choice is a copy left license.

There are better modeled 3D components from most manufacturers nowadays, and you can freely download them, BUT they are not released normally with a copy left license.

The whole point of this is, we have an open CAD, and I think the license of the libraries should also stay open. Otherwise we will end up with the horrid mess that is the GNU/Linux system today. Linus realized the mistake of letting people incorporate non free modules in the kernel too late, so the “■■■■ nVidia” was actually the result of his miscalculation…

I will see what I can do about the step problem, but certainly I don’t have the time anymore to redraw all couple thousands of models from scrap…

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All official Kicad libraries are open. There has been a discussion about adding symbols, footprints or mainly 3D model from manufactures.
Rene_Poschl has always been against including any element in the libraries with proprietary license. And he is more than right!

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KiCAD library is IMO the biggest 3D MCAD open source library for electronic components.
If you miss some footprint/3D model, just ask here or open an issue… probably you’ll get the model quite fast :smiley:

for that reason I started my 3D model repo on late 2015 (even before KiCAD could handle STEP internally), generating 3D STEP models from GPL scripts
Now we have a solid library based on evolution of those scripts :smiley:

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