240 Volt AC socket/plug symbol required (Abandoned)

[Jim_Thompson]

@paulvdh

It’s not very clear to me what you want.

@simonmugo

I think it is not clear for what you need.

Please find attached picture of a 3 pin 240 volt wall outlet.
The symbol I require is for the plug that fits this.

Jim.

[BobZ]

As others have inferred, it is easy to make symbols in KiCad. KiCad is very useful for schematic diagrams which (either do or do not) represent a printed circuit board.

I think that if you can find an image of symbol that you want, you should be able to create it with KiCad

Having said that, KiCad symbols do have some “overhead” which relates to the primary intention of making circuit boards. (For example: pin types). So for a “dumb schematic” (which looks good but does not define a pcb) you might find that a general purpose drawing program (such as Visio) might be easier.

BTW Libre Office includes “Draw”. I think this is supposed to compete with Visio, but I have difficulty to draw some shapes (a 3/4 round?) using Draw. Does anyone know of an open source drawing program which might be better for this sort of thing?

[Jim_Thompson]

@BobZ

BTW Libre Office includes “Draw”. I think this is supposed to compete with Visio, but I have difficulty to draw some shapes (a 3/4 round?) using Draw. Does anyone know of an open source drawing program which might be better for this sort of thing?

I like Qcad. It is 2D open source with a good support forum.
I expect that I will be using that to create my 240 volt AC plug symbol.

[mgyger]

Standard (IEC 60617) would probably be something like this but the 2 connectors separated and with 3 (instead of 1) contacts inside each connector and the male/female contacts swapped (rectangle means fixed, rounded means movable connector):

One old US (IEEE Std 315) connector symbol looks like this (male contacts would be filled):

[Jim_Thompson]

@mgyger

One old US (IEEE Std 315) connector symbol looks like this (male contacts would be filled):

That will do nicely, I do believe. I will see if I can find it.
Where would I be likely to find the library with that symbol? It is not in the default library that I already have.
Edit:
Is it possible for me to import a .dxf file from a CAD drawing? On Qcad for example?
If it is, it might be quicker to draw one and import it.
Many thanks!

[der.ule]

I am not sure about .dxf but you can add bitmaps using the ‘Image Converter’ tool or insert an image directly to the schematic.

How to import dxf wiring diagrams to the Schematic Layout Editor (not for pcb footprints, etc.)

I once wrote a Java app to convert a bitmap schematic and netlist of an Intel 4004 CPU to an Eagle schematic. It worked quite well, but it was custom to that specific application. I also know of someone who attempted to write an application to convert images of hand-drawn schematics of a 1980s computer with some success. But I don’t know of a generic way to handle this. In general, I suspect you’d probably spend as much time fixing up faults in the automated conversion as you would re-entering …

Convert schematic to symbol?

@gwideman your comments are valid. One option would be to Draw a Circuit in the Symbol Editor - sure, it’s not ideal for drawing but, you can (perhaps) get something useful enough. That would eliminate needing an Image (and it’s large amount of data). Example shown, below… (I quickly doodled some shapes, Lines and Pins to give the Idea…) And, could use high-DPI of image to get nice quality PNG image (exported PNG from Mac after setting DPI…) [Screen Shot 2021-05-30 at 11.16.14 AM] [Screen…

[paulvdh]

So, if I understand correctly you only want a schematic symbol, and no PCB footprint?

It’s quite easy in KiCad to design your own schematic symbols. How hard can a symbol with 3 pins, three rectangles and a circle be? The graphic capabilities of KiCad are quite limited, but they are adequate for a task like this. The example below took me about 2 minutes to draw, and half of that was for creating a library to put it in.

[Jim_Thompson]

[quote=“paulvdh, post:17, topic:35411”]
So, if I understand correctly you only want a schematic symbol, and no PCB footprint?
As I stated in post #3 above, at this stage I have no plans to create a printed circuit board.

It’s quite easy in KiCad to design your own schematic symbols. How hard can a symbol with 3 pins, three rectangles and a circle be?

I am in no position to answer that Paul.
I have never done such a process…yet. I never even knew it was possible until just yesterday.
I gave it a try last night, but could not find a circle for a starting base. I will look again.

A courteous reminder here; I have about three weeks (or less) experience with KiCad…only.

Thanks again for the reply.

[paulvdh]

No worries.
We all had to start somewhere at some point in time.
As I already wrote, I made the initial draft in just a few minutes.

I apologize for missing you only want the schematic. It’s a bit of a bad quirck of mine. Due to some conentration problems I miss things (more often then average).

@Jim_Thompson

I gave it a try last night, but could not find a circle for a starting base.

In the Schematic Symbol Editor most parts of the schematic symbol are just graphical items, which have no meaning whatsoever, except for making your schematic symbol look reasonable to humans.
You can add lines, polygons, circles, arcs, with Symbol Editor / Place / Add ….
The only items that have a real meaning are the pins, because these are used as attachment points for wires (and thus nets and the netlist) and for matching schematic symbols with PCB footprints.

The Getting Started in KiCad from KiCad’s Help menu is quite outdated, but there is a newer document (For KiCad 6) with the same title on the KiCad Website:

Getting Started in KiCad | 6.0 | English | Documentation | KiCad

[Jim_Thompson]

Thanks again Paul.
I will follow up your instructions.
Hopefully, I will not have to ask for any more assistance.

[Jim_Thompson]

@paulvdh

The example below took me about 2 minutes to draw, and half of that was for creating a library to put it in.

Paul,
I acknowledge and applaud your obvious competence - if that is what you are seeking by this statement.
However, I am loath to think that your motive here is to elicit praise and acknowledgement of your obviously considerable accomplishments from a relative beginner in the use of this application…
But…hey, I might be wrong!
Sarcasm intended!.

Jim.

[eelik]

I can say that Paul is always helpful and his purpose was to tell that drawing symbols is a very basic and easy task in KiCad. That is true: if you are going to continue with KiCad, you will need to learn that anyway and it will be a useful skill.

[Jim_Thompson]

@eelik

That is true: if you are going to continue with KiCad, you will need to learn that anyway and it will be a useful skill.

Thanks for the comment. Point taken!
Most if not all of the 2D CAD skills I possess are now are "very basic and easy tasks" in the same way that you and Paul evaluate this “create new symbols” challenge in KiCad.
However, I perceived them as not so “basic and easy” before I learned them.
It’s a question of if you are already accomplished, like Paul clearly is, or just starting out and not accomplished, as I am.
I intend to find out how and learn that skill, of that I am quite sure. Independently if necessary!
In order to do so, I will look at more youtube videos; no doubt there will be clear step by step instructions on one of them.

[jmk]

@Jim_Thompson
Just a couple of remarks:
The schematic is just an abstract diagram. You could use a generic plug “Conn_Wallplug_Earth” as found is “connectors” and then specify an Au. Standards product.
If you wish to “roll your own”, seeing you are brand new to this, I’d suggest placing that plug on your schematic to get an idea of the size you require, then place that generic in your symbol editor and build your own symbol beside it. This way you will get the size right first time.
When you have completed your own symbol, just delete the generic.
See below.

[Jim_Thompson]

@jmk

Just a couple of remarks:
The schematic is just an abstract diagram. You could use a generic plug “Conn_Wallplug_Earth” as found is “connectors” and then specify an Au. Standards product.
If you wish to “roll your own”, seeing you are brand new to this, I’d suggest placing that plug on your schematic to get an idea of the size you require, then place that generic in your symbol editor and build your own symbol beside it. This way you will get the size right first time.
When you have completed your own symbol, just delete the generic.

Thanks jmk. I will give both options a go.
More later…

Jim.

[paulvdh]

I am confused about the intention of your sarcasm.
I’ll leave it at that.

---

In KiCad, schematic symbols need a place to live, and that is in a library.
So, before you can create a new schematic symbol, you have to create a library.
You can not add new schematic symbols to KiCad’s default libraries, they are read-only.

I thought that the new “Getting started in KiCad V6” guide I linked to was a quite clear step-by-step explanation of the steps to take to add that library and create a schematic symbol in it. The link even points to the right chapter: #tutorial_part_4_custom_symbols_and_footprints in that document.

I am aware that for people with more experience it’s sometimes hard to see where (and why) beginners get stuck, and how to help them get unstuck, precicely because things seem easy and logical once you’re used to them. But part is also on your side. Instead of making general remarks and sarcasm (neither are helpful), tell us what you have done, which tutorial you are following and where you get stuck. Before we can help, we have to know what is the missing piece on your side.

Eric S Raymond has some experience with questions from inexperienced users, and he wrote an article about asking questions in a smarter way:

https://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[Jim_Thompson]

[quote=“paulvdh, post:26, topic:35411”]
…
I thought that the new “Getting started in KiCad V6” guide I linked to was a quite clear step-by-step explanation of the steps to take to add that library and create a schematic symbol in it. The link even points to the right chapter: #tutorial_part_4_custom_symbols_and_footprints in that document…[/Quote]

Paul,
I have no doubt that it is, to the more experienced reader. I have never been really good at interpreting complex instructions on first or second reading; that is my considerable shortcoming. I’ll go back to it. The fact is I am under some pressure from colleagues to get a drawing out and I am jumping ahead too fast.

[Quote]
I am aware that for people with more experience it’s sometimes hard to see where (and why) beginners get stuck, and how to help them get unstuck, precisely because things seem easy and logical once you’re used to them. …[/Quote]

Ok. Fair comment.

Eric S Raymond has some experience with questions from inexperienced users, and he wrote an article about asking questions in a smarter way:

Thanks. I will read that.
In the meantime, I will refrain from posting questions on this forum until I become more competent in this regard, if at all.

In my own defence, I have close to 20,000 posts on another major forum and I have only ever been complemented on my behaviour there. This includes one of my own build threads with over 80, 000 hits. But…I have been unintentionally clumsy in the beginning due to not knowing the unwritten code of behaviour that is considered acceptable on that particular site.
So clearly I need to learn what you suggest in order to fit into this forum, or go elsewhere, or both.

But thanks for your critique.

Edit:
I just clicked on the link you provided. I received a security warning. This site not safe!
Do you have another avenue to find the document?

Jim.

[paulvdh]

I also got that “not safe” warning.
Quite strange, probably overzealos web browsers on someone forgot a punctuation mark on that website.

https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=Eric+S+Raymond+"how+to+ask+questions+the+smart+way"

Or:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way.pdf (162.0 KB)

[Jim_Thompson]

Thanks. I will go to those alternatives.
I just edited my previous post.

[Jim_Thompson]

@BobZ

So for a “dumb schematic” (which looks good but does not define a pcb) you might find that a general purpose drawing program (such as Visio) might be easier.

It appears that Visio is a Microsoft program. I am using Linux Mint. Is there another Unix compatible drawing program that you can suggest?