240 Volt AC socket/plug symbol required (Abandoned)

[Jim_Thompson]

I am looking for a symbol of a 240 volt AC outlet plug and/or socket. Australian configuration.
Can someone please direct me to one?

[paulvdh]

It’s not very clear to me what you want.
Mains voltage sockets are typically not mounted on PCB, but connectors are used, and then the socket is put into some housing.
If you really want to mount the mains voltage socket directly on the PCB, then it probably needs a specially designed footprint for your brand of socket. The main plugs are standardized (according to one of many standards), but the way such sockets are mounted on a PCB is not standardized.

Can you post a picture of the sort of thing you want? That may help in narrowing it down.

Also:
Making new footprints in KiCad is quite simple. For some mysterious reasons lots of beginners are apprehensive for designing their own footprints, but there are so many weird footprints out there, that sometimes it’s unavoidable to make your own.

That said, there are sites that specialize in making footprints for electronic parts. Such sites usually have a very big databasae (> 1e6 parts), and then a footprint output is generated from some script to be used in the PCB program of your choice (In this case KiCad). Two of such sites are:

PCB Libraries

SnapEDA

[retiredfeline]

@Jim_Thompson

240 volt AC outlet plug and/or socket. Australian configuration.

Actually the nominal mains voltage is now 230V but 240V is within tolerance.

I suppose you just want to make a wiring diagram and are not considering making a PCB out of it at this point.

[Jim_Thompson]

[quote=“paulvdh, post:2, topic:35411”]
It’s not very clear to me what you want.
Mains voltage sockets are typically not mounted on PCB, …[/Quote]

I have no plans to create a PCB. I am beginning to realise that this forum assumes a PCB will be made, is this correct?
If so, pardon my confusion and/or ignorance. I only want a circuit diagram for a manufacturer to begin with.

That said, there are sites that specialize in making footprints for electronic parts. Such sites usually have a very big databasae (> 1e6 parts), and then a footprint output is generated from some script to be used in the PCB program of your choice (In this case KiCad). Two of such sites are:

Thanks for the links to extra library sites.
And…thanks for the reply.

@retiredfeline

Actually the nominal mains voltage is now 230V but 240V is within tolerance.

I suppose you just want to make a wiring diagram and are not considering making a PCB out of it at this point.

Correct. Only a schematic wiring diagram required for a manufacturer.
Thanks for the reply,

Jim.

[Jim_Thompson]

I will follow up the links.
If necessary I will draw a symbol in Qcad and import. (If that is possible?).

[retiredfeline]

@Jim_Thompson

I am beginning to realise that this forum assumes a PCB will be made, is this correct?

Well you can use KiCad’s schematic editor without progressing to a PCB. I have done it to create schematics to explain a point, but if you are looking to make electrical schematics, the symbol library may fall short since it’s weighted towards electronics. There is another thread in the forum where posters mentioned other CAD programs more suitable for generating wiring diagrams.

Edit: Also some people draw a schematic to run a simulation using ngspice, and not make a PCB.

[Jim_Thompson]

@retiredfeline

Well you can use KiCad’s schematic editor without progressing to a PCB. I have done it to create schematics to explain a point, but if you are looking to make electrical schematics, the symbol library may fall short since it’s weighted towards electronics. There is another thread in the forum where posters mentioned other CAD programs more suitable for generating wiring diagrams.

Ok, I see. I will search for that thread with alternative applications.
Just to add to my previous replies; the symbol needs to be understood in China for manufacturing.
Thanks again.

[retiredfeline]

@Jim_Thompson

the symbol needs to be understood in China for manufacturing

Whichever program you use, ensure the correct pins for live and neutral for the chosen viewing orientation as AU power sockets and plugs are polarised.

[simonmugo]

I think it is not clear for what you need. Although for me i have learned to build my own footprints from scratch and it is working very nicely. I believe it will work more nicely for you too if you learn how to creaate your own footprints and symbols. Thank you

[Jim_Thompson]

@paulvdh

It’s not very clear to me what you want.

@simonmugo

I think it is not clear for what you need.

Please find attached picture of a 3 pin 240 volt wall outlet.
The symbol I require is for the plug that fits this.

Jim.

[BobZ]

As others have inferred, it is easy to make symbols in KiCad. KiCad is very useful for schematic diagrams which (either do or do not) represent a printed circuit board.

I think that if you can find an image of symbol that you want, you should be able to create it with KiCad

Having said that, KiCad symbols do have some “overhead” which relates to the primary intention of making circuit boards. (For example: pin types). So for a “dumb schematic” (which looks good but does not define a pcb) you might find that a general purpose drawing program (such as Visio) might be easier.

BTW Libre Office includes “Draw”. I think this is supposed to compete with Visio, but I have difficulty to draw some shapes (a 3/4 round?) using Draw. Does anyone know of an open source drawing program which might be better for this sort of thing?

[Jim_Thompson]

@BobZ

BTW Libre Office includes “Draw”. I think this is supposed to compete with Visio, but I have difficulty to draw some shapes (a 3/4 round?) using Draw. Does anyone know of an open source drawing program which might be better for this sort of thing?

I like Qcad. It is 2D open source with a good support forum.
I expect that I will be using that to create my 240 volt AC plug symbol.

[mgyger]

Standard (IEC 60617) would probably be something like this but the 2 connectors separated and with 3 (instead of 1) contacts inside each connector and the male/female contacts swapped (rectangle means fixed, rounded means movable connector):

One old US (IEEE Std 315) connector symbol looks like this (male contacts would be filled):

[Jim_Thompson]

@mgyger

One old US (IEEE Std 315) connector symbol looks like this (male contacts would be filled):

That will do nicely, I do believe. I will see if I can find it.
Where would I be likely to find the library with that symbol? It is not in the default library that I already have.
Edit:
Is it possible for me to import a .dxf file from a CAD drawing? On Qcad for example?
If it is, it might be quicker to draw one and import it.
Many thanks!

[der.ule]

I am not sure about .dxf but you can add bitmaps using the ‘Image Converter’ tool or insert an image directly to the schematic.

How to import dxf wiring diagrams to the Schematic Layout Editor (not for pcb footprints, etc.)

I once wrote a Java app to convert a bitmap schematic and netlist of an Intel 4004 CPU to an Eagle schematic. It worked quite well, but it was custom to that specific application. I also know of someone who attempted to write an application to convert images of hand-drawn schematics of a 1980s computer with some success. But I don’t know of a generic way to handle this. In general, I suspect you’d probably spend as much time fixing up faults in the automated conversion as you would re-entering …

Convert schematic to symbol?

@gwideman your comments are valid. One option would be to Draw a Circuit in the Symbol Editor - sure, it’s not ideal for drawing but, you can (perhaps) get something useful enough. That would eliminate needing an Image (and it’s large amount of data). Example shown, below… (I quickly doodled some shapes, Lines and Pins to give the Idea…) And, could use high-DPI of image to get nice quality PNG image (exported PNG from Mac after setting DPI…) [Screen Shot 2021-05-30 at 11.16.14 AM] [Screen…

[paulvdh]

So, if I understand correctly you only want a schematic symbol, and no PCB footprint?

It’s quite easy in KiCad to design your own schematic symbols. How hard can a symbol with 3 pins, three rectangles and a circle be? The graphic capabilities of KiCad are quite limited, but they are adequate for a task like this. The example below took me about 2 minutes to draw, and half of that was for creating a library to put it in.

[Jim_Thompson]

[quote=“paulvdh, post:17, topic:35411”]
So, if I understand correctly you only want a schematic symbol, and no PCB footprint?
As I stated in post #3 above, at this stage I have no plans to create a printed circuit board.

It’s quite easy in KiCad to design your own schematic symbols. How hard can a symbol with 3 pins, three rectangles and a circle be?

I am in no position to answer that Paul.
I have never done such a process…yet. I never even knew it was possible until just yesterday.
I gave it a try last night, but could not find a circle for a starting base. I will look again.

A courteous reminder here; I have about three weeks (or less) experience with KiCad…only.

Thanks again for the reply.

[paulvdh]

No worries.
We all had to start somewhere at some point in time.
As I already wrote, I made the initial draft in just a few minutes.

I apologize for missing you only want the schematic. It’s a bit of a bad quirck of mine. Due to some conentration problems I miss things (more often then average).

@Jim_Thompson

I gave it a try last night, but could not find a circle for a starting base.

In the Schematic Symbol Editor most parts of the schematic symbol are just graphical items, which have no meaning whatsoever, except for making your schematic symbol look reasonable to humans.
You can add lines, polygons, circles, arcs, with Symbol Editor / Place / Add ….
The only items that have a real meaning are the pins, because these are used as attachment points for wires (and thus nets and the netlist) and for matching schematic symbols with PCB footprints.

The Getting Started in KiCad from KiCad’s Help menu is quite outdated, but there is a newer document (For KiCad 6) with the same title on the KiCad Website:

Getting Started in KiCad | 6.0 | English | Documentation | KiCad

[Jim_Thompson]

Thanks again Paul.
I will follow up your instructions.
Hopefully, I will not have to ask for any more assistance.

[Jim_Thompson]

@paulvdh

The example below took me about 2 minutes to draw, and half of that was for creating a library to put it in.

Paul,
I acknowledge and applaud your obvious competence - if that is what you are seeking by this statement.
However, I am loath to think that your motive here is to elicit praise and acknowledgement of your obviously considerable accomplishments from a relative beginner in the use of this application…
But…hey, I might be wrong!
Sarcasm intended!.

Jim.