Hm seems i have misremembered this then. @Thomi_My as i wrote above schematicless design will get better in the next version of kicad. If you are brave then you could test out the current nightly builds how they behave.
There are also many other functions in KiCad that do not work properly without a real netlist. The concept so fundamentally embedded in KiCad that working without it is just sheer madness.
For very simple actions I sometimes abuse the selection tool. You can select a single track segment by clicking on it and then use the u and i shortcut keys to expand the selection with connected copper.
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Yes, i think you are right and thats, what i thought. This time i didnt have a netlist so it will not work. But its no problem only a bit more complicated to export Gerber and import in SprintLayout.
That Funktion is very good, so you can see misconnectiones or fail connections.
But Thanks to all for the help!
Greeting Thomas
Thank, i will try that also
Yes, but it goes much further than that. If you have a netlist, then Pcbnew also knows that connections between different nets are not allowed, and it will just refuse to make faulty connections. (This can be overruled for rare cases).
And it even goes further than that.
If you are drawing copper tracks it can even push other copper tracks aside to make room for your new track automatically. You just keep drawing into an already occupied region like it was empty. (Within limits of course, there has to be enough room for everything).
And while doing all that, KiCad keeps specified clearances between different items which can be defined for each net separately or, for a group of nets. This is called a âNet Classâ. It takes some time and effort to learn these concepts and how to apply them, but they greatly expand the things you can do while creating a PCB and are well worth learning.
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Hi @Thomi_My,
You really need to follow the âHelpâ guidelines to get the full benefit of Kicad. There is also lots of information in the FAQ at the top of this forum.
From your screenshot it looks like you have drawn track segments close to each other with the goal of soldering them together on an ad-hoc basis.
If you have this PCB manufactured, those tracks will be covered by solder mask, and therefore hard to solder. The round ends of the tracks are also not very solder friendly.
KiCad has âsolder jumpersâ as footprints (and schematic symbols) in itâslibraries. These are exposed SMT pads close to each other, so they can be easily bridged by a drop of solder.
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If I understand what you are writing correctly, I think that it makes absolutely no sense to export a PCB made in KiCAD just to look at individual nets, if there was no mistake.
It is much better to make a schematic and be sure that you did not make a mistake (KiCAD will keep an eye on this).
When I read in your first message:
I just didnât understood the question because âsince alwaysâ I see all unrouted yet connections (in form of lines showing you what you need to connect) and it is not possible to make wrong connection (KiCad doesnât allow to connect at PCB something that is not connected in schematic).
So it looked for me that you are trying to find solutions for just not existing problems.
Before starting to design my first PCB using PC (DOS) I spend some time to write the program to convert Orcad (those time only schematic editor) netlist to Racal-Redac (PCB design program without or with not enough good schematic editor) netlist as I just couldnât imagine designing PCB without schematic.
@Piotr As I wrote before in this thread:
The poster is (very likely) an absolute beginner with KiCad, but apparently has prior experience with âSprint Layoutâ. As far as I know it is not even possible in that program to draw a schematic. You just place footprints on a PCB and start drawing tracks.
I assumed OP was approaching KiCad from the same Idea of workflow, and took some time to point out some differences.
I was writing (in the past tense) that I didnât understood his first message and why (from later conversation it became clear).
I just wanted him to understand how much help he is giving up without using the schematic.
I have the same opinion, and Iâd like to convince OP of the âonly rightâ approach to PCB design 
.
Even we see here from time to time people defending themselves with their hands and feet against using a schematic I donât think it is that case this time so I hope I have a chance to be successful.
Here in that case it was not necessary to make a schematic, because here its only important, to connect 10 RJ12 plugs on the board. So i didnt do a schematic, because that would be not usefull. In my next duty i have to do a schematic before, because it will be more complicated. I ordered 10 Platines and found out later, that i forgot one connection, what i found later in SpeedLayout. But Thanks a lot for your help!
Because you need to highlight connections we can see it would have been necessary. Simplicity of the idea doesnât mean itâs a simple layout, and if itâs not simple layout, it benefits from a schematic. Itâs not strictly speaking ânecessaryâ because itâs possible to do without schematic, but if you need to highlight different nets to check correctness itâs complicated enough to warrant a schematic. This would have been âsimpleâ if there would have been two connectors.
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Oh, oh, there we go againâŚ
This is simply not true.
A schematic generates a netlist and the netlist gives you a ton of extra features in KiCad.
A much better argument is:
This is just a simple adapter board with a few connectors, so a schematic is quick to draw and the few minutes it takes me pays itself back when designing the PCB.
Believe me, I know.
A year or so ago I attempted to help someone who just wanted a simple adapterboard to put on some 20odd Li-Ion cells for an electric skateboard, and kept insisting that the schematic was too simple to draw and refused to do so. But a 18650 cell (with solder lips) does need holes to be soldered in, and thus needs footprints. In the end I made a working PCB with the limited OPâs mindset and it probably took twice the time compared to first drawing the schematic and making a proper footprint for the 18650 cells and putting a footprint for that on the PCB.
Iâve also seen multiple threads by others who got in all kinds of trouble in Pcbnew because a schematic / netlist was missing. The root cause of the highlighting for your own project not working properly is because there is no schematic.
I see a few options. The choice is yours:
- Work with KiCad, that means start by drawing a schematic before you make a PCB (beginner error acceptable of course). After a few PCBâs you get the hang of it and can make PCBâs quickly and efficiently.
- Work against KiCad: Try to cobble together a PCB in pieces without a proper netlist. You will be fighting KiCad all the way, possibly without even knowing it, and will not learn 90% of KiCadâs features.
- Do not use KiCad. It is a free world after all.
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Shure, my next project will be much bigger with parts. So i will use of course the schematic. Thanks
Doing a few small projects in KiCad is a much better way to learn it than jumping in with a big project.
Beginners (with KiCad) do make mistakes, and such mistakes are sometimes hard to fix. If the project is big, this can lead to a lot of mind dumbing repetitive work.
If it is a simple and quick project however, there is always an option to just trow away the project and start over. This also ads a bit of repetitious work, but a bit of repetition is good as a learning experience. With small projects you also see more different features of KiCad and this helps with motivation. And then a few days later, you see (search for) those same features in the next project and this greatly helps with the learning experience.
Compare this with working on a complex schematic as a beginner for a few weeks, and then making a PCB which may take just as long. Then for your next project, a month later youâve forgotten a lot about what you learned when drawing the schematic.
When I started with KiCad (V4, maybe even V3), I started with the âGetting started in KiCadâ guide, and without any prior knowledge of KiCad I designed my first PCB with it in a single afternoon and I found it to be a very pleasant experience. After that I was hooked. Unfortunately that guide is seriously out of sync with the current KiCad version.
I think that a PCB with around 10 to 20 footprints is the best for learning KiCad. PCBâs with less parts and the individual tasks such as footprint placement are skipped over too easily. For more complex PCBâs you start getting into the area of too much repetitive work which is bad for learning, and spending too much time to correct beginners mistakes you will make.
This brings your adapter board right into the middle of an ideal starters project. Re- doing this project with a schematic will give you a good idea of the differences and better workflow you get with a schematic. Maybe you regularly design similar adapter boards and start with a PCB that is similar in complexity, but different from the PCB you just drew in Pcbnew.
Hi Thomi,
If you had drawn a simple Schematic before the simple PCB, this problem would not have occurred.
âAlways schematic firstâ saves time, effort, anxiety and money.
Cheers,
Ah indeed that one too, it got lost in between all the other messges in this thread.
Yet another thing that would also have stood out when a schematic had been drawn are the solder bridges. Representing these on the schematic may well have lead you to the real footprints for these.
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