This seems easy to reproduce. Start on the bottom side, hit V etc and click and it continues to route on the bottom side. It seems to work if I start routing from the top side. It checked to see that the bottom and top layers are paired (though the inner layers are not). Also vias can’t always be moved after being placed!? Sometimes you can drag a via and sometimes you can’t?
(Use a Mac with version 9.0.4) It makes it slow and tedious to route traces. When I seem to get it to change sides when routing from the bottom I end up pulling another via around? V to get a via then another click place it, then it doesn’t continue routing?? When I click again on the via it starts to route on the same side as the via again. What could I be doing wrong? Is there something wrong with this set up? There must be something seriously wrong. This is my first layout with KiCAD. I’ve got like 30 connections made. There’s no way I can work this way for the next 400 connections on this board. It’ll take weeks!!
Posts like your make me to still stay with V8.
I have no experience with V hotkey as at my 2 layer PCBs I am trying to make all connections using only top layer and left bottom for continuous GND.
I don’t think it’s verion 9. I think it’s still my unfamiliarity with how best to work with it. I just figured out that “Switch to previous layer” hotkey was a better way for me to work than the V key! But some mysteries remain like why I can’t use D ot G to drag vias and keep them connected, but I can M move them (and disconnect) them. And I’ve got a deadline on this 4 layer large board so I’m getting impatient.
Have you read the documentation on routing? Everything you describe works absolutely fine for me (and seemingly every other user) so there must be something configured wrong. Or some bugs we haven’t stumbled across before.
On your points in general:
- Placing a via should continue routing on the next active layer in the layer pair. Have you got the layer pairs set up OK? The active layer pair can be edited from the menu bar layer pair button.
- Vias should drag just fine, with the D or G hotkey - but the behaviour of how existing tracks move is different between the two modes.
I’ve just checked this with my local 9.0 install with a new project, and everything works fine. Perhaps you could post a video of what you’re seeing, with a description of the exact steps?
The routing docs are here:
And if I may offer some gentle advice, asking for assistance with statements such as ‘WTF’, ‘I could route faster 30 years ago!’, ‘So far routing in KiCAD is AWFUL’ and suchlike is not likely to engender much support. KiCad is developed by actual human beings, who care about the code they’re writing, and the quality of the software. It’s used for some seriously complex boards, including those designed by the developers - so we do care about workflow and usability too. Let’s all communicate like reasonable people and work through frustrations rather than shouting on forums.
Yup, but it sounds like you are willing to persevere, which is good. 
So how long have you been using KiCad? 20 minutes?
With “impossibly slow” do you mean a keypress and a mouse click? I get so annoyed by your many complaints that it’s hard to even read/comprehend your whole post.
Yes, and that’s a feature of KiCad. KiCad’s interactive router being able to shove things aside to make room for other things is a quite powerful and very nice feature. But it does need some time and effort to get used to.
I apologize if my approach is a little brusk. I’ll try to edit out my unecessary comments in the post. I’m in between trying to figure out it the behavior is normal and I just don’t know how to use it right, or if it’s a bug. The V key was not switching layers for me. I got the top and bottom layers paired before I wrote it up but I didn’t pair the inner layers until recently. Originally I thought the top and bottom paired automatically. Perhaps I also needed pair the inner layer too, and then disable them? Was this what now allows me to reliably switch layers? So the layer switching is OK for me now. Thanks for the replies. I’m just trying to figure this out.
But I’m still not sure why the vias don’t move when I hit D or G. They unselect themselves when I hit the key. For instance. The below selection I could grab with the vias and then drag with a mouse click or M, but the traces disconnect. When I tried it with D or G, the vias the traces connected to the vias unselected them selves. I was trying to moving everything with its vias and traces closer to the CPU
KiCad’s interactive router being able to shove things aside to make room for other things
To be clear Push And Shove is just one of the modes in the router and when you don’t want to shove existing things around, you can use “walkaround” or “highlight collisions” mode. There is a slot for a hotkey for each, as well as a hotkey slot for cycling the mode.
There is a difference between Move and Drag. Moving just moves items (footprint or a selection) It does not maintain any sort of connectivity
You’re also mixing up several things in one block of text (which is something that easily confuses me).
If you have a via placed, you can click on it, and then drag it around with the mouse (no key whatever needed). and it will keep the tracks attached.
If you click on a footprint, and then “drag” it around, then KiCad defaults to the “move” function, and it gets detached from the tracks.
If you hover over a footprint (no need to select it first) and then press d for drag, then KiCad drags the footprint, and it keeps tracks attached. KiCad won’t accept an end position that violates DRC, but you can overrule this by keeping the [Ctrl] key depressed while finishing the drag. And similar for blocks. Creating a selection, then d drags the block around while keeping tracks attached.
Earlier you mentioned that:
- Starting a track.
- Press V to attach via to the cursor
- Click to place the via and continue routing on another layer
… did not work for you. Does it work now?
I am not so familiar with the layer pairing. I have not designed a PCB with more then 2 layers yet myself.
The V function does seem to work for me now. It seems I need to hit V again to switch layers (now that I have all layers paired properly) which I thought would happen the first time I hit V. I’m also able to work by just selecting the new layer (similar to my old way of working in Eagle.) So it seems more workable to me now, but not entirely as expected.
I was unaware that drag worked differently whether it was hovering over a component vs one that was selected
At least there is progress.
And KiCad is “different” from eagle. This will take some time to get used to.
In 2021 Rene Poschl wrote a FAQ article about some differences between eagle and KiCad, but I don’t know how relevant that article still is.
Not really different, but without selecting, you can just drag one item. If you make a selection first, the whole selection gets dragged.
Just practice a bit and give it some time. You will probably get used to it pretty quickly. After a while you’ll start forgetting how that other program worked
You can modify hotkeys in: … / Preferences / Preferences / Hotkeys
There are many hotkey options that do not have a default key assigned, but not for extra dragging options. You can drag a block (with whatever is in it at that moment). There is a significant difference between between dragging the mouse cursor from left to right, or right to left when you create the block. (Left to Right does not include the items that cross the block boundaries)
For the rest, maybe you are struggling with the Selection Filter in the lower right corner. With it you can set the object types which are selectable.
It’s OK. I’ll read up more on the manual and the modes. It’s more in-depth than the tutorials. Finding my way. It’s actually going faster than my adjustment to Eagle was once.
Considering moving to KiCad I have read all manuals before I downloaded KiCad V4 itself.
I read manuals and talked to folks before making the change, but info doesn’t stick until you put it into practice. Seeing that things are case-sensitive is another thing that tripped me up. Creating with a large complex schematic and placement before ever having laid a trace in KiCAD other than in a short simple tutorial. . . it’s trial by fire here. But all good
That’s true. My task was to find if KiCad is enough good to move to it from Protel 3. I am not doing huge designs and am not using all program possibilities so I had in mind just options I use and trying to find in manuals if they are in KiCad. My conclusion was that KiCad (V4 those time) has a few flaws compared to Protel 3 but had one important advantage - manual route with pushing other tracks. That decided. As V5 was expected soon I spend time waiting for it on defining my symbols and footprints and started first design with V5. V5 solved via-stitching problem. Both in KiCad V4 and my Protel 3 all GND vias you had to connect with tracks. Since V5 - you need not.
With each new main version I find some features that are helpful for me. Unfortunately V9 cut me off. To move to V9 I have to modify all my 300 footprints. I have heard that if I ask AI I should get the Python script to do what I want with my footprints, but I don’t know when I will find time to try to do it.
I don’t even know how to run a Python script, but it is probably the simplest part of this job
When I evaluated KiCad, it was still on the “Bazaar” version numbers (< V4) and a big factor in adopting it was that I saw there was quite some development going on. That gave me some insurance that the big flaws (back then library management was completely broken) would be fixed in due time. And I was right about that
Changing ECAD packages is like a new pair of shoes. They aren’t nearly as comfortable as the old pair was, but everyday you wear them they’ll get more . . . comfortable.
No, not really for me.
My immediate reason for a new EDA Suite was my switch from Windoze to Linux, but by that time the program I used (ultiboard 5.72) was so old and deprecated that it was high time to replace it anyway.
BTW I figured out my biggest problem. REVERSE THE ORDER OF “V” AND CLICK! It’s habit! For 30 years in both programs I’ve used I’ve placed the point where I want my via first with a click, then changed sides or placed the via with a command or hotkey. With KiCAD I hit the V first, THEN place the location with the click. If I click first then V with KiCAD it places the via, but it does not change side until I hit V a second time. It took me WAY TO LONG to figure this out. I knew this intellectually and could start working fine, but my fingers brain kept reverting. I thought it was some inconsistent bug. It’s my brain!