V-cuts cannot zigzag, they must be edge to edge. Read the fabricator’s documentation.
PCB fabs don’t like panels for the low cost pooling services, because it makes it more difficult for them to nest all the PCB’s for different customers on their big panels. Sometimes multiple PCB’s for the pooling services get rejected, sometimes you have to pay extra. So before you continue with this idea, check the details with your PCB manufacturer.
V-grooving also take manual labor to set up, which is not economical for small series. If you really want to make a panel, then routing them is probably a better option.
But panel design is not trivial. It must be strong enough to stay intact during manufacturing, yet be easy enough to separate. As this is apparently your first order ever, it’s probably better to stay close to the standard process, and just order separate PCB’s. If you order the 4 batches together, you can probably save on shipping. But for the rest, the costs are so low, that it’s probably not even worth to think hard about it.
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Here is the info from jlcpcb
“4. The V-cut line must cross the whole panel or else the factory can’t add a V-groove on the PCB because the milling cutter may destroy any sub-PCBs on the V-cut line. They also cannot stop part way across the panel. The V-cut lines shown below are not acceptable.”
That link starts with:
Different Designs in your PCB files
Some customers would like to merge more than 1 PCB in the same gerber, although by doing this, customers just have one order, this complicates the fabrication of the panel. Meanwhile, this may make it hard to cut the board outline. So we will usually charge more for this.
and therefore only confirms what I wrote earlier.
Thanks, that was exactly the information and guidance I was looking for. I have done exactly as you suggested and simply batched up the individual designs into a single purchase. They’ve already been approved for production, have to see what results.
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When I order prototype boards (in our local PCB manufacturer) I put several PCBs together, but I don’t assume it will be their panel. They will put my PCB together with others. So I even not consider that it will be able to make v-cut through my PCB and then through PCBs ordered by others.
I order it as one PCB, but as you have a right to make milled openings in your PCB I use it to divide my PCBs. I just left 2mm space between them with bridges with mouse bites. See my biggest example here:
Interesting how about half the panels on the OshPark sheet you linked to have used a ground plane and half haven’t - clearly some designs might have benefitted more than others.
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JLCPCB is very transparent on the cost of the PCBs. You need to figure out, whether it is really worth the effort to consolidate your pcbs in one board. The cost components very much depend on where you are located.
I am located in Germany. I have just ordered two 4 layer pcbs (77 mm x72 mm), 5 pieces each. The cost is this:
- single PCB: $1.40
- 5 PCBs type 1: $7.00
- 5 PCBs type 2: $7.00
- express shipping to Germany: $21.50 (special offer)
- import duty: 19% = $6.75
- handling charge $0.50
- ===================
- total: $42.75
Shipping makes up 50% of the PCB for me. The 19% duty is the German VAT (value added tax), which you have to pay also for domestic supplies.
Long story short: I guess consolidating the PCBs will not make a big difference.
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Yes, shipping is the major cost item for me too here in Canada. That is what motivated me to try panelizing until I found that I could place a single order for a single shipment for all designs as entirely separate items; the cost is low enough that panelizing seems not worth the effort and likely counterproductive.
If the weight and cost is correct you can get single board orders to Canada for $us3.50 for 5 boards all in. It’s confusing but it’s cheaper to ship them individually as you get the $us3 discount on the first board and the cheap $us1.50 shipping. You want to choose “Global Standard Direct Line”. Some times it’s worth dropping the boards to 1.2mm or 1mm thick to drop the weight into the $us1.50 category.
ps. unfortunately JLCPCB is not very supportive of kicad, they want you to use their software.
Yes, there are various parameters you can tweak for a suitable tradeoff.
Size: 100x100 mm for 2 layer, 50x50 mm for 4 layer boards for the special price. But if you need the area, you need the area.
Shipping: Faster costs more. I’m cheap and lazy, and sometimes don’t assemble boards for months, so a couple of weeks wait is fine by me. But if you need it soon, you need it soon.
Weight: Sometimes batching purchases will be cheaper, sometimes not. It’s actually cheaper for me to make 2 orders of 5 boards than one of 10 because of the cheap shipping weight threshold.
Variations on the board specs affect the cost. Additional features cost more. It used to be that anything other than green soldermask cost more, but now pretty much all fabs charge the same for any colour, maybe it will take extra production time.
Play around with the order form. Their computer won’t get tired of you if you twiddle the knobs to see what happens.
I wouldn’t say that JLCPCB is not very supportive of KiCad. They support it no less and no more than other ECAD suites via the Gerber submission method. They do have documents explaining how to generate fabrication output from KiCad. Of course they would like you to use EasyEDA if only because they have integrated it with their LCSC parts ordering. That’s their killer advantage. But you can find open source tools that assist with that too.
I’ve made over 300 boards with JLC, always submit a Gerber file.
I haven’t created a great many but I use the Sparkfun CAMMer plugin and JLCPCB has not had an issue with any of the gerbers I’ve submitted, whether they be individual boards or panels (of a single design).
Not to slag off JLC too much but… I thought I’d put several solder stencils together and put them with a single zip file. Guess what? They decided not to manufacture it and held up the total order. I was not pleased I can tell you. When their ‘agent’ told me I’d cancelled the order I was outraged and didn’t order from them for several months.
My advice is as per the rest of the replies, don’t mess them around they are very cheap compared to UK suppliers especially on 4-layer controlled impedance boards.
Steve
I’m not sure what happened there. But if you want to combine several PCB’s and/or stencils into a single order, you are yourself responsible to communicate that properly with your PCB manufacturer.
I once had an order for Mouser, and over a month later it was not delivered. It turned out there was an e-mail in my spam box and they wanted me to promise I’m not a terrorist. I was also pissed, canceled the whole order, and ordered my BeagleBones from Germany instead. When the anger died later, I had to admit I had only myself to blame.
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Different Designs in your PCB files
Some customers would like to merge more than 1 PCB in the same gerber, although by doing this, customers just have one order, this complicates the fabrication of the panel. Meanwhile, this may make it hard to cut the board outline. So we will usually charge more for this.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic, what triggers a “different PCB in the same gerber”? I imagine a routing line all the way across would make it obvious, and of course it would cost some on their end to accommodate, hence the extra charge.
But what about leaving a line with simply no copper (no traces, no fills, nothing at all), and cutting it myself? Am I correct in assuming that that would be a “single PCB” or “single design” as far as they’re concerned, since nothing’s any different for the process on their end? They send me a single solid board (with some visible lines of missing copper for me to cut on), and I cut it into the designs that I really want.
(Somewhat like an analog audio mixing desk that I inherited from a church upgrade: it has some smaller PCB’s, and similar-sized notches out of the corners of some others, and the service manual says that that’s exactly what they did…)
That depends on the PCB manufacturer.
I once read that one PCB manufacturer will accept markings on silkscreen (and room to saw PCB’s apart) but will reject a PCB if it has a gazillion holes drilled in a row that are clearly meant to break the PCB over that line (That was long ago).
Other PCB manufacturers may reject the PCB if they see any indication that the PCB is supposed to be cut into pieces by the user later. But I guess it’s all decided on an ad-hoc basis.
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What does JLCPCB say about this.
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In fact they do suggest that a board with multiple designs but no V-cuts or slots you could cut it yourself, placing some guide lines on the silkscreen.
Basically fabs will charge for anything that is extra work. If they see something that looks like multiple designs or repeated single design, they will flag it in the review. V-cuts indicate panelisation, slots could. Some single designs may be grey area, like a board with a prominent slot due to the need for isolation. They may or may not invoke the extra work charge.
Not having a workshop and not willing to spend effort with a saw on FR-4, I’m happy to avoid panelisation since prices are so low already.
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