Newbie terminology question re: layers

[Just_Me]

I’m not sure exactly what “commenting” means, but plotr’s answers have been very helpful - simple answers to simple questions and clear about what he does and does not know. Much appreciated.

[Piotr]

@bobc

Maybe leave commenting

Maybe you are right, but…
When I write that I don’t know how to do something I just hope someone will write how to do it and I will know that. There were no such info in that thread before I have written that.
Writing programs to manipulate in KiCad files is not in my understanding doing that “In KiCad”.
To write such program (even so short) you not only have to know Python but also all (types, classes, properties, actions, …) what you get access to after import pcbnew. It is not a solution to be prepared on need for someone I would call “Standard program user”.

[Just_Me]

Bingo.
And some blather for the 20 character nannies. Sheesh.

[Russ]

If you click the small heart-shaped icon underneath Piotr’s reply, that will signify that you found his reply helpful.

[kpfleming]

It is trivially easy to move a track from one layer to another: click any part of the track to select it, right-click (or two-finger click, or whatever brings up the context menu on your system), and use the ‘Select’ menu to extend the selection as far as you want (the rest of that track, all tracks connected to it, or all tracks on the same net), then press ‘e’ to edit the track, then use the Layer drop-down to change the track’s assigned layer.

With a large number of tracks this will take a lot of repetition and thus time, so then your next option is to open the ‘.kicad_pcb’ file in a text editor and search/replace the layer assignments for everything on that layer.

[Just_Me]

Hi - i tried to reply to the email, but somehow delivery failed.

Thanks for the tip - i may have over-used the hearts, but i went back and indicated useful comments. There were lots, each with some tidbit i didn’t know, or needed confirmed.

Thnx

G

[Just_Me]

That’s very helpful. Yes, we’re talking a competed, notated board of > 100 components (fine time to realize this, eh?) so it will be work, but your tips make it maybe 20X less work if i decide to so so.

As noted, i’m pretty convinced the board will work as is. Odd, but work.

G

[Sprig]

@Just_Me

i’m pretty convinced the board will work as is. Odd, but work.

I suggest fixing the board to be how you think that you want it; even if it means spending quite a bit of time.

What this will do is force you to invest more of your time/effort interacting within KiCad. You will very likely learn some things that you didn’t know you didn’t know (yes, this makes sense ).

And, I think you will be happier with the board that you spend the money to have fabbed and end up working with. Doing it “Odd” may not clearly show where you made mistakes in the process for the next spin, or next project.

[Just_Me]

Its a learning board anyway - and i have many more to experiment with, so just making it will not prevent me from learning. The whole point of me learning CAD is to cut down prototype time, so increasing it is not on the menu

[hermit]

@Just_Me

i may have over-used the hearts,

This software is actually designed to encourage their use. See ‘badges’.

[Sprig]

@Just_Me

The whole point of me learning CAD is to cut down prototype time, so increasing it is not on the menu

It appears that you think this initial extra time/effort invested will not be of great benefit to the time saved in the future; I’m not so certain that you are right .

[Just_Me]

i think you are mis-reading me. I’m spending time, but sinking it into this particular board is not necessary the wisest use of it.

TX,
G

[SembazuruCDE]

Sorry for joining the conversation late, but I wanted to test my idea first. Also, sorry for the long post. But I wanted to include lots of pictures for reference.

If you have a board with traces only on one side and want to move all the traces to the other side, try this:

1. Drag select the entire board.
2. Right-click anywhere in the editor window and choose Select/Filter Selection... from the pop-up menu.
   
3. Deselect all items in the filter window except Include tracks.
4. Hover over a trace and either press keyboard e or right click and choose Properties... to edit the properties of all select traces.
5. Change the layer to your desired target layer. This example has all selected traces on B.Cu.
   

It gets a little more complicated, but same general idea if you have traces on both sides. You can think of it like a Tower of Hanoi puzzle. You need at least one more layer to temporarily hold traces. So, for this board, I have most of my traces on one side, but I had to jump over two power traces:

Here are the steps to move the traces (note, I’m doing this in KiCad v5.1.4, 5.0.x and earlier may have settings in different places):

1. In Board Setup I change my copper layers from 2 to 4:
2. For this example, I’ll start with the traces on the back. I turn off the F.Cu layer. See how the front traces vanish from view, they are also no non-selectable:
   
3. Select the entire board, filter your selection for traces only, and edit the trace properties, but this time move the traces temporarily to one of the inner layers, for this example lets say In1.Cu.
   
4. Turn off the layer you moved tracks to (In1.Cu here), and turn back on F.Cu.
   
5. Select the entire board, filter your selection for traces only, and edit the trace properties, and move the selected traces to B.Cu.
   
6. Turn off B.Cu and turn back on the layer you moved tracks to (In1.Cu here). The picture looks similar to the picture on step three above, but note the difference in the active layers.
   
7. Select the entire board, filter your selection for traces only, and edit the trace properties, and move the selected traces to F.Cu.
   
8. Turn B.Cu back on, and change board layers back to 2 from 4. Et voila, you’ve moved your traces to a different layer without resorting to rip-up and re-layout.
   

Moving planes is easier. Just select the filled zone you want to move and change the layer in zone properties (keyboard shortcut e, Right-click menu Properties...).

[SembazuruCDE]

I forgot to mention. If after you have selected all and then filtered to only traces and then go to enter the properties, if the Layer: field in the Track & Via Properties window is blank, then you have tracks selected on more than one layer.

[Piotr]

@SembazuruCDE

Et voila, you’ve moved your traces to a different layer without resorting to rip-up and re-layout.

And it is the answer I dreamed of when I have written:

@Piotr

I don’t know how to do it in KiCad, but I don’t know KiCad well yet.

Some time ago I started to do my first serious PCB in KiCad. But, after first elements placement done and about 50% nets connected we had made decision - something else is more important. To do that I had do some experiments (do some prototype boards (not in KiCad as KiCad has no circular tracks), buy some materials, elements and even an oscilloscope to improve my measurement possibilities to parts of ns). And now I am back in library definitions of elements to be used in that second PCB.
In mean time I am trying to:

@Sprig

learn some things that you didn’t know you didn’t know

so I am reading the forum, but I can’t hold back myself from writing if I get some association with what I read.

[der.ule]

@Just_Me Maybe this part is a bit confusing at the beginning also, but in KiCAD the active layer (the one your are currently working at at the moment) is brought to the top to make it easier for vizualisation, it doen’t mean that is going to be processed like that, it is just to unclutter the view.

Working on F.Cu (Front/Top/Component side)

Working on B.Cu (Back/Bottom/… side)

Take a look at this thread, some other people are much better to explained than me

Issues w/upgrade from 4.0.5 to 5.0.2_1

Can you share a board file with only the edge cuts layer? You could also use a current nightly build (Which will be released as version 5.1 within a week or two.) and run DRC as it now checks for correctly created edge cuts drawings (non self intersecting closed polygon) and points to problem areas. (The new snap to endpoint feature also makes it a lot easier to work with complex drawings.) This is simply how the modern renders work. The layer that is currently active is always shown as the …

[Just_Me]

This is fantastic, and i looked for something similar but didn;t find it (KiCAD is still a UI work in progress). I must say i chuckled at (let me paraphrase) “Sorry to spend so much time crafting and testing an answer for you” -LOL. Thanks.

Fortunately i have only traces on one side and a ground plane/fill on the other, which is easy to delete and re-create. In fact, since i need to add some enhancements to the design anyway, I need to re-create the ground plane/top layer anyway.

Really appreciate it.

And thanks for joining late.

G

[Just_Me]

You SOOOOOO Rock! Worked likea charm. All done except for triple checking