I’ll definitely check those out. I’m already using FreeCAD StepUp and I used a BoM plugin a few years back when I last used KiCad.
I think you didn’t understand my point. I was talking about being able to work with the files outside of Altium/KiCad/Protel because we can not know if we are still able to use KiCad or especially Altium or Protel in the future.
Hypothetical scenario:
Windows 11 will come out, neither Protel 3 nor KiCad will not run on it and Windows 10 will reach EOL and no longer receives security updates.
Now you are either stuck with either an old PC you have to keep to edit your old Protel files, buy the expensive successor, if Altium will still exist then, or not being able to work on your files, because no other program can properly read the binary blobs created by Protel. Installing it on a new VM could also be problematic thanks to DRM (i don’t know about Protel DRM).
With KiCad you have a better possibility to still being able to edit the old files without KiCad. Thanks to the text format it is easier to find any other program that is able to read the files or program it yourself. It will be easier to install KiCad in a VM because KiCad does not have DRM. And thanks to the open source nature of KiCad, you have some chance in fixing the problem and installing it on a new PC. Not forget that KiCad also runs on Linux, Mac and BSD, not just Windows.
Not the scripts i use, but an example.
Programming is very useful, it can save you a lot of work, including in KiCad.
The same is true for Altuium, but to a lesser extend. When i used Altium programmed scripts to generate PNGs of the top/bottom layer so that i had them in the 3D files and a tool to use the generated BOM to make multiple BOMs one for every way the PCB will be assembled (I include this information in the schematic in hidden fields).
I believe you have a better possibility to edit the old files with KiCad. It has reached the point where it’s so large and important and there are so many users and developers that it will be developed and maintained even when many commercial competitors have ceased to exist. In a hypothetical situation where a future Windows version would break Win10 compatibility wxWidgets would be potential problem. Otherwise porting KiCad to that new OS would be mostly recompiling.
I understood your point about software will be not available but I also sow the second point about problems with read binary files and I was writing only about it. I don’t know how in Altium but in Protel you probably can have all files in ASCII.
I had to look what DRM is :).
I don’t know how it is with current PCB design commercial software, but Protel 3 (1997) I understand I can use forever.
It is what I was writing - that may be in Altium (as in Protel) you can also work with text and not binary files.
In what I have written I didn’t wonted to say anything bad about KiCad. I just wonted to point mistakes I supposed about only binary files in Altium. Supposed as I only know how it is in Protel and don’t know how in Altium.
As a fellow power electronics engineer you might appreciate that the plugin supports multiple hierarchical levels (in Altium speak room within a room within a room within …). So you can have a B6 inverter. You put each driver in it’s own hierarchical sheet. And each phase (one leg) also in it’s own hierarchical sheet, so that it includes also two gate driver sheets… When doing layout, you first lay out one driver (e.g. high side) and then you run the plugin to replicate the layout into the low side driver. Then you proceed to laying out one phase and you finally replicate the layout to other two phases. I’ve seen somewhere that this is not possible with Altium. And for V6 I will probably add an option to flip the replicated layout.
As for the inclusion in KiCaD it is highly unlikely. I understand the reasons and I agree with them. If stars align, we’ll at least get a plugin manager so the discovery of third party extensions will increase significantly and also make installation easier.
2 Likes
Altium 21 latest version ASCII save.
I think the version is V4 or something, far from the latest format.
Seems to be saved for legacy use.
The format doesn’t look very nice to work with either.
Did you read the EULA if full when you installed it? You might find (as I recently did to my cost) that whilst you might well be able to run a program, in theory ‘forever’ , once the hardware packs in you may well not be able to install it on a new machine. MS Office did this to me recently - even though I have the install key they have deactivated the authentication server. No choice but an upgrade.
To be honest, this has been a recent development, at that time your were indeed “owning” the software, not just renting it.
FWIW I thought I did own the software and had a permanent licence for it - but my hard disc died. I tried to reinstall the software on a new drive, but, even though I had the licence code, Microsoft no longer run the authentication servers for this product. When I phoned, they pointed out the terms of the EULA which only mentions installation on the ‘original hardware’ - once your HDD drive dies, there is no obligation on them to allow an install on a replacement. I’m not talking about a subscription/SAAS model. This was software that I paid for and owned outright but was still not able to reinstall.
So, just a note of caution - even if you think you ‘own’ the software and are free to re-install it whenever you like, you may still be thwarted. Best not to be tied in to a vendor if you want to be sure that you can access your data.
2 Likes
Probably yes, but don’t remember.
I spend today some time trying to find it. I found manuals I didn’t know that I have them at HDD. But I didn’t found EULA.
I have Protel working at my Windows XP, 15 or more years old PC. I keep that PC only for that Protel and switch it on once every few months only to see some old designs and to copy (manually) something from there to new KiCad projects.
Protel has some bugs ending with total hung-up (total = restarting the PC doesn’t help) but during the years we learned how to avoid them and when they happen which files need to be replaced by their ‘working’ copy saved for that purpose.
I have never had MS Office. There were some time (long time ago) when we used MS Works before OpenOffice.
Protel has activation keys but need not to contact with any server (in 1997 not all had internet).
I think making HDD image after installing all needed software could help.
Sooner or Later the elctrolytic capacitors in your XP computer will end this strategy. 
3 Likes
Yes, but:
1.
electrolytic dry up mainly while they are warm. When I use that PC statistically one day per month time of being warm is relatively short.
2.
electrolytic don’t like to be stored (with no voltage at them) for years, but as I switch PC from time to time it should be enough for them.
I probably could install Protel at my current PC but I have never tried to setup a virtual 32 bit system at my 64 bit system (it works at Windows 7 32 bit but not Windows 7 64 bit). I think I will switch on that PC less and less until some day I will find I need not it at all. If it had been taken from me today, I would have managed without it.
nothing qemu can’t fix. The joy’s of VM’s
Protel 99SE is rated Gold on Wine
You can replace electrolytic capacitors by hand, they are large. But i would prefer to use Software and File formats that can be used on different Systems
I was using MSOffice as a recent, personal example, but I suspect that the strategy of quietly removing the ability to resurrect old software on new kit is not unique and one that we should all be wary off in commercial applications.
Even if you make disc images, do you then check that the backups you carefully make are readable on a regular basis? Home burnt DVDs can become unreadable over time, magnetic media degenerate and even commercial and professional archives have problems. The format may no longer even be readable if your backup storage device fails and cannot be repaired.
That is completely different subject.
Old software, especially those that were considered graphics heavy like PCB packages, often used to directly access the video hardware to improve redrawing. This just wont work as expected on a modern machine and recent OS go to great lengths to isolate the hardware from the application.