So now the question becomes, how are two or more areas of copper designated to be a “net”?
- Create a schematic.
- Assign footprints.
- Eeschema / Tools / Update PCB from Schematic
“Copper area’s” are called “Zones” in KiCad speak.
Once you have a netlist, you can edit the properties of a zone and set it to any of the existing nets.
Note;
This only works for a Zone. not for a polygon, which is just a simple graphical item, and has no clearance and also can not calculate internal geometries to keep the clearance from other objects. For all those functions a proper netlist is mandatory.
Yeah, that is going to be extremely labor intensive and exceptionally time consuming to do for 2"x1" board. 
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Tracks, pads and zones can have a net. Normally the netlist is created in the schematic and propagated to the layout from there with Tools -> Update PCB from Schematic. In 5.99 it’s also possible to create nets directly in the layout but it’s not the recommended workflow.
Again, the way you are using KiCad now is against the normal workflow and doesn’t help you to learn KiCad with all its basic capabilities.
IMO it’s OK if you ever need to create these few boards and won’t learn KiCad further. Otherwise the time would have spent better learning the normal symbols and schematic -> footprints and layout workflow.
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I think I might have figured out how to do it, but will have to experiment with it more to be sure. I was able to assign a via and the copper area on B.Cu (which was created as a zone) to a net, using properties (if I’m remembering correctly). But I was not able to do the same thing on F.Cu, apparently because it is a filled polygon. Converting to tracks didn’t work (didn’t allow me to assign to a net), and neither did converting to lines and then converting to a zone. More later, as I experiment with it some more tomorrow.
Personally, I much prefer to have full manual control over the layout, not everything is a one size fits all scenario. It’ll go much more quickly once the right steps are determined, looks like it’s almost to that point. Creating these few boards is the beginning, the immediate goal for now, but of course I will want to eventually learn the “full automatic” workflow as well.
Now we can see you are trying to do what was instructed earlier: replace bare copper areas with proper tracks, zones etc., using the original layout as a guide. But this can’t succeed unless you use real footprints with pads, too. And we are back where we started.
Hilariously stubborn.
I think I was able to successfully get all the copper areas correct. Going to upload the pcb file again with the latest revisions. Here’s what I did:
Copper areas that do not have vias were left as filled polygons, as per above. For copper areas that contain vias:
- click on a via to select it. Then right click on it, and select properties. At the top of the box that pops up, uncheck the box for automatically update nets. Then select the net dropdown, click on the blank area, type in a name for a net, and click create net. This can be done for more than one via at a time by holding the shift key and selecting multiple vias. Once the net is named and created, vias can then be assigned to it by unchecking the automatic update net box and selecting it in the dropdown (in the properties popup box). For some odd reason, a net can only be created in via properties (this does not work with zones), so at least one via must be done before the zones.
- for the copper area containing a via, select all the lines in the outline by dragging a rectangle to enclose the shape, or clicking on the line segments while holding the shift key down. Right click and select convert to zone. Click on an empty area to clear the selection, then click on the outline line segments (holding shift key down) to select only the outline, then delete the outline. Click on the zone again to select it, then right click to select properties. In the box that pops up, check the box for show all nets, then select the net name. For fill type, select solid. For remove islands, select never (not sure if this is necessary or not, but it was part of what I did that seemed to make everything work correctly). Click ok, and close the properties box.
- Click on the zone to select it. Right click, select zones, and then fill. If the zone does not appear to fill properly, select the zone again, right click and open the properties box, then close the properties box, and the zone will show it’s proper fill and size.
- For all zones and vias that this is done for, double check by selecting each in turn, and confirm that the net name, fill mode, and fill area are properly displayed at the bottom of the screen.
So now after doing the above and creating a set of gerber files, the F.Cu and B.Cu layers seem to be appearing properly in both GerbView and Gerbv. However, the vias do not appear (the copper areas show as being solid shapes), and I am assuming that this is because I did not create drill files and attempt to add them to the viewers. I was not able to check the results in the 3D viewer yet because I won’t have it downloaded until my data cap resets again in a few more weeks. Could someone please confirm that it displays properly in the 3D viewer?
The next step appears to be generating the drill files and making sure that everything properly confirms to the standards for gerber files. All copper areas have been double checked, and have .01" or .015" clearance from the board edge. What else needs to be checked, to make sure that the gerber files will be correct and nothing is “sloppy”? There appear to be multiple options for the drill files, how do I set the drill files up properly?
Latest revisions:
board 1 zones test 2.kicad_pcb (23.5 KB)
Again, many thanks to those that have been helpful!
For these initial boards, I can get away with it due to the nature of the layout and components used. For a larger and more complicated board with not much more than standard components, it would obviously make more sense to use “stock” footprints than create everything manually from scratch. But even in that scenario, situations will always arise when you want to customize something. That is why I feel it is important to understand a manual workflow as well as being able to use the standard automatic modes. I find it very odd how this seems to have been overlooked, and how otherwise apparently intelligent people are attempting to discourage this. Hopefully documenting how to implement a manual workflow here will be something that others can learn from and benefit from in the future.
I’m sorry GoldenAge, but I think you are missing the whole point of Kicad.
It exists to help people design functioning PC boards to their specifications, hopefully, without too many unnecessary traumas, dramas and heartaches.
It is a manual method with a manual workflow. About the only thing “automatic” is the generation of manufacturing files after the board is completed.
Using the Kicad suggested workflow minimises unnecessary traumas, dramas and heartaches. eg. spending countless hours trying to convert files.
Sometimes “stock” footprints will work and maybe save a little time and effort, otherwise, “manually from scratch” or “manually modify stock footprint to suit” will be needed.
Kicad has a whole programme dedicated to manually making or customising footprints to suit ones needs.
Kicad also allows just about anything else you wish to stick on a board to be customised or modified.
It hasn’t been overlooked. This is what the programme is all about!
EDIT:
Understanding a manual workflow has not been overlooked. This is what the programme is all about!
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I had a 20s look at your PCB.
From what you have made I get a vague impression that it is supposed to be used for about 10 components in 0805 size (maybe 1206).
Apart from that It’s utterly useless as a PCB.
For example, There is no graphics on F.Mask nor B.Mask.
The result is that if you try to have this PCB manufactured in a normal PCB manufacturing process, the whole PCB will be covered by solder mask and you can not solder anything to it.
This is worth repeating:
I do not know what you think what would have been overlooked, but I automatically assume that JMK is right.
( I don’t even bother reading your motivation for your stubbornness or how you try to abuse KiCad anymore. It’s too depressing.)
You are sitting in a slow boat and trying to row upstream over rapids, and apparently you are not even realizing it. As long as you keep doing that there is simply no hope of you ever doing something useful with KiCad. I think you have been told this about 10+ times. This is the 172th message in this thread and it’s still going nowhere.
Maybe these are harsh words, but my (and others) really do have the intention of helping you to work productively with KiCad. But to go anywhere you have to completely abandon the way you are abusing KiCad and start over in the way KiCad is intended to be used.
If you want to do anything with KiCad, then start by making a schematic.
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I understood what you did only after checking the board file. Using nets was unnecessary. They are useless because you don’t have real nets which are separated from each other electrically. I removed the nets and changed the zone to a polygon, it took under 1 minute.
It’s possible to use a board without a mask, although it will be more difficult. You were reminded of the missing mask already. If you want it that way, you should at least cover the mask layer with graphics which shows that physical mask isn’t used. You should also give a note to the manufacturer about that. I Added the mask as zones which covers the inside area of the board.
board 1 zones test 200.kicad_pcb (24.2 KB)
If you really want to use nets and want to have real mask and mask openings, there’s no other reasonable option than to create footprints and replace graphic polygons with footprints, tracks and zones. Than can be done without schematics if you still insist not using it. However, you still would need to know what is connected to where and with that knowledge you could as well create a schematic.
You have now learned some small details of editing a layout but you actually didn’t learn how to use them usefully. What you learned didn’t help you to learn good workflows. Even for you own goal – copying the layout to KiCad to generate gerbers – you used some details in a wrong way. I hope this helps you to understand why it would be better to learn the real pcb design workflow first. After that it’s easier to use KiCad creatively for tasks it’s not designed for.
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Why would you say they are unnecessary? Without them, the annular rings on the vias cause them to be isolated from the copper areas that they are supposed to connect: the board displays in GerbView and Gerbv with no copper around the vias, and did not display correctly in the 3D viewer when I was using version 5.1.9. With the nets, I see the copper areas displayed (I’m assuming) correctly in GerbView and Gerbv (as solid shapes, without black rings of no copper at the via locations). But I will not have the 3D viewer for version 5.99 for several more weeks, so have no way to check it there. I examined the revision you had made and noted what you had done, but it displays in GerbView and Gerbv with the black areas of no copper in the via locations. From my understanding, the only way to eliminate this is by assigning all the the vias and associated copper areas to a net. Could you please explain?
What are going to be the best settings for generating the drill files? I would like to see if the vias display properly in GerbView and Gerbv if the drill files are included, and of course the board houses will need them as well. There appear to be many options for generating the drill files, and I do not know which settings are best, or why.
I tend to think the opposite, that a mask is an unnecessary complication. I already know where the components are supposed to go, and I will be the one to assemble the boards. My plan was to simply not include a mask layer at all, and to specify to the board house that there is no mask layer.
Why do you keep saying that? If you’re using a lite download, you don’t have 3D models, but because you don’t use footprints, those are useless to you anyway. You should have the 3D viewer, though, so you can take a look at your boards.
the horse is dead. close this threaadddd.
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You needed them only because you tried to use a copper zone. Copper zones make sense almost exclusively with nets; they are meant to adapt dynamically and automatically to items in other nets.
If you open the design modified by me in my previous post you see it’s what you need but without a zone and nets.
It also shows in the logical formal way that the board doesn’t have mask (yellow in the 3D image is copper, brown is bare board). You still should communicate the mask thing explicitly, though.
This zone and nets issue shows that you learned how to technically use some details of KiCad but you still didn’t learn why. The why comes when you learn the normal intended workflow.
do you understand the difference between soldermask and silkscreen? it would seem not. educate yourself.
If you assemble manually yourself and have large enough components it’s OK for small designs to leave off the mask. But it comes for free and isn’t a “complication”. It adds electrical safety and makes soldering easier no matter how you solder or assemble.
It depends on the board manufacturer, as many other details do. Unfortunately the gerber standard is old, new things have been added to it over time but most (at least cheap) manufacturers use old and/or buggy software and rely on their own conventions, so you can never trust that one recommended way works for all manufacturers with 100% certainty. For example the gerber standard has its own drill file specification but I believe most manufacturers don’t even recognize it. Use the excellon file unless your manufacturer tells otherwise. And in any case you should find the settings from the manufacturer’s web page or ask them. If you tell where you are going to send your order (web link) we might be able to give some comments.
You are still rowing upstream without a clue.
Not even aware that the current has pushed you into the ocean.
If you stop rowing and look around you, can you still see the shore?
I have a proposition to break this impasse.
Your PCB looks like it has about 10 SMT components. It is probably some filter. Resistors, capacitors and probably also some inductors.
I am willing to make a decent KiCad project from this, and post it here.
Maybe looking at a KiCad project that is made with KiCad’s normal workflow can convince you.
A coarse guess for my time:
10min Making the schematic.
05min Assigning Footprints.
20min Placing the Footprints on the PCB, routing and cleanup of your zones.
To be able to do this I need:
A schematic (may be hand drawn, preferably already made in KiCad)
Component sizes. Are those 0805 or 1206 on your PCB?
Explanation: What are those 4 horizontal bars on top of the PCB.
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You could have a very professional finished PCB with soldermask and silkscreen for absolutely zero extra cost and near 100% likelyhood of it being correct when you get it, without having to specify any weird requirements to manufacturer.
All you would have to do is draw a schematic.
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